Lib Dem policy debate thread

[SenoraPostrophe]

So we've had best/worst tory/Labour threads, and I thought I'd fill the obvious gap for 2 reasons: firstly i'm seriously thinking of voting Lib Dem, and secondly because it occurred to me that the reason so many people scored well for the lib dems on this thread is because their policies are not debated as much as those of the other parties.

So anyway:

local income tax - good idea. in fact it was my idea.

50% tax band over 100k - good idea

free personal care for elderly - good idea, but I'm really not sure we should spend 1.7 billion on it. personal care is already free to those who have no money.

abolishing university fees - ditto. perhaps they should cut them though.

abolishing the DTI - really not sure on this. The dti does all kinds of dodgy stuff which should be abolished but not sure the whole dept should go.

what do you think? sophable, where are you?

It's not going to be my election issue - I just feel uncomfortable that too many issues are to be decided centrally, and my options/rights as a parent become limited.

Have to say, I disagree with free care for the elderly as well if they have the means to pay. Why are they even suggesting it? Would be pissed off that taxpayers have to subsidise just so their kids get more hands on their loot.

Not sure I agree that most graduates get a graduate level job. Hasn't the entry criteria just changed to make some jobs appear graduate level?

local income tax - Agree it's a good idea

50% tax band over 100k - Bad Idea. V. Bad Idea. In global, knowledge based economy having a high tax rate on higher incomes will simply mean less revenue due to legal forms of evasion.

free personal care for elderly - Bad Idea

abolishing university fees - Good idea - if it's combined with making university education more relavant. I do believe in education for educations sake, but can't see the point of having millions of kids with degrees in business studies working in call centres.

abolishing the DTI - Good Idea. Keep government out of commerce.

All the graduates I know have graduate level jobs, in that being a graduate helps with the job. I know a lot of graduates - some did work in call centres for up to a year after university, but that doesn't mean their degrees are wasted 8since they're using them now).

50% tax band - surely those who are likely to fiddle it (legally or illegally) are doing so already? 50% is after all only the equivalent of 40% plus NI.

Most people I work with SP (Civil service) are graduates - not graduate level entry though.

My mil is a LD councillor and shes making poor Dh get up at 5.30 on election day to help deliver 'good morning' leaflets!

Would consider voting LD if charles kennedy looked up to the job, which imo he doesnt!

(wouldnt tell mil that thoguh!)

[skids in with small puffs of smoke at heels] right then. i'm hear.

reasons to vote libdem:

only party anti-war in iraq without second UN resolution.

only party serious about electoral reform (massive massive issue, if we made a change to first past the post, then our votes would actually count. we should have green MPs in parliament. we should have independents in parliament. parliament should reflect the will of the people ffs)
(btw tb promised this in '97 manifesto but has gone v v quiet about it since, and i notice that you haven't addressed that point morningpaper )

no top up fees.

50% higher tax rate

local income tax

the only party honest enough to acknowledge that current prison system is not working (no point making more prisons...they don't work, they breed criminality, they are morally abhorrent) and that advocate a proper rehabilitation policy as well as realising the need to protect society from the worst kinds of violent offenders.

pro europe

i'll be back with more

imo the first two should have you all voting for them.

obviously i mean i'm here as opposed to hear doh.

agree with oldiemum re tuition fees.

Oh god I'm confused.

I usually am

I disagree with free personal care for the elderly and think it should be means tested (not universally available)

Also not in the manifesto, but apparently in one of their policy papers that they would end mandatory life sentences for murder and for violent crime. Not sure about that one.

Tinker said:

Have to say, I disagree with free care for the elderly as well if they have the means to pay. Why are they even suggesting it? Would be pissed off that taxpayers have

Why are they suggesting it? well I reckon it's a sure fire vote winner

(but I disagree with it)

Vote labour - it's a good middle ground!

I will be voting lib dem this thursday. Agree with most of their policies including scrapping of ID cards idea, money better spent elsewhere.

worked with uni students a lot of my working life before becoming SAHM, and i think fees should be abolished, i never had to pay so dont think our children should have to pay. However, I also don't think people who fail a-levels etc should go to uni. It is not up unis to make up the failings of schools. Govts need to address failing schools fast.

On the university fees issue - for me there is a distinction to be made. I think tuition fees should be scrapped, but maintenance fees I am less convinced about.

Although students from low income families should IMO get a maintenance grant

However, I also don't think people who fail a-levels etc should go to uni. It is not up unis to make up the failings of schools. Govts need to address failing schools fast.

Exactly - and why does EVERYONE have to go to university anyhow? Know two brothers - one went to u ni - the other wasn't 'bright' enough......the one that didn't go is now earning MORE than his brother working as a plumber - something he learned to do as an apprentice - and for which University wouldn't have been anygood for him to learn!! Bring back apprenticeships and 'technical colleges' so that people who are 'brainy' can go to uni and get their 'graduate' jobs - and the rest can do EQUALLY important jobs (often earning more money LOL)

For the lefties among you (it won't convince anyone else), here are my good friend (and, indeed, the father of my dds) blogged thoughts on the LibDems--concluding 'my Labour MP voted against the war, and I feel almost inclined to support him just because I am so sick of the Lib Dems fake radicalism'. Generally, I agree.

Interesting read Ruth - but not sure it entirely stacks up. How can 50% upper tax rate and local income tax be benefitting the middle classes (who would undoubtedly benefit more from non graduated tax)

Will the LibDems keep or abolish Child Tax Credits and Working Family Tax Credits?

Anyone know? Charles Kennedy...?

I always get the feeling that their economic policies have never been thought through...

That's the problem with all parties who have no real chance of power, very easy to come up with worthy policies when know don't have to act upon them. The free care for the elderley isn't a vote winner for me at all.

hmc the vast majority of the middle clases don't earn more than 100k, and anyway a 50% band above that is better than the often bandied about alternative - abolishing the upper ceiling for NI.

Now if the lib dems addressed the ridiculous tax increase thing at 30-40k (40% band, full NI) then I think the policy would work better as in reality, only those earning 110k or more would be affected (are you following me?)

also much as i'm not against fees for well-off university students in principle, I think top up fees are one of the biggest cons labour have come up with.

Senora - think the Lib Dems are proposing a graduate tax aren't they? Or did I dream Charles K saying that on the Today programme.

Voting libdem in our constituency will probably mean helping the tories but I will do it anyway because I believe in their policies. You can make any number of arguments for voting tactically but at the end of the day we won the right to vote according to our principles, not in order to prop up a two-party state, so I shall vote for the party I agree with, not the one I think would win.

2 years ago I would have sworn I would vote labour, as I approve of many of their social policies, but what has changed my mind and made me so angry are:

1. The war
2. Tuition fees and top-up fees
3. The erosion of civil liberties.

Plus my super labour mp is standing down as she is fighting breast cancer so I no longer feel any personal disloyalty in not voting for her.

I'm still veering towards the Lib Dems though my parents who run a business tell me the 50% tax will hit business hard.

I have never had a graduate job I'm afraid. When I left uni I went to work in a box office. After I had a baby I moved house and now work as an admin assistant both for my parents and my husband's business.

I tried for loads of graduate jobs but got nowhere.

I would support free care for the elderly as my husband's grandparents faced losing their (very run down terrace) house they had worked for for years when they needed care just before they died.

I also support scrapping of unecessary tests in schools (do they mean SATS? I hope so)

I'm still veering towards the Lib Dems though my parents who run a business tell me the 50% tax will hit business hard.

As you probably now we're in the VERY early stages of getting our own business up and running - but DH and I are both voting Lib Dem - DH doesn't feel LD will affect things any more than Labour currently does, or the Tory's would.