Child wellbeing still nearly the worst in Europe.

[Callisto]

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Hmmmm. Try again: www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5hvD9Vcrmjo__DH7-9OBdMJHJNkAQ

how depressing

Sorry about the incompetant linking there. We all remember the UNICEF study 2 years ago where the UK was ranked as a pants place to grow up. It seems that 2 years has made no difference (no suprise there) and with the prospect of £18 billion worth of 'efficiency' savings I can't imagine there will be any money at all to throw at this in the forseeable future.

I heard about this on the radio this morning - a study from York Uni?- and was shocked. It measured child mortality, illness, education, parents disposable income, divorce rates, access to services, social mobility and then some vaguer things like 'happiness.'
Since lots of children in the UK have the best of everything it is clear that we are now a nation of have and have nots.
But what to do? The country has voted time and time against higher taxes to help the disadvantaged. Do we just have to accept we are now a polarised country and count our blessings that we are in the 'right' half?

There are so many shitty attitudes to children, including labelling them chavs at a young age and a fear of one's children interacting with anyone of a lower class, that I am not surprised we are turning into a country of have and have nots.

we could start with equal education for all (as if that will ever happen)

oo, callisto (shameless hijack) how are your emigration plans moving along? think you had put them on hold for a year? haven't 'seen' you for ages.

• actually it is sort of relevant in a sad way lol as the kids are the main reason we are hoping to go

we've just sent back our docs after our 90 day so are waiting for meds... moving in aug for 2 year work anyway...

Am not overly surprised tbh

A lot of it is attitude and the strange beleifs that our kids are growing up with.

I mean, my ds1 is 9 and has probably anorexia. FFS! Everywhere we go all he atl;ks about is how strong and thin are cool and fat isn't. Someone is exposing him to that (and it'snot me that's for sure, or DH.We're not overly style conscious to put it mildly).

It also only take s a look at the threads in some of the more vulnerable postinga reas- SN, Employment (should be renamed redundancy atm) tos ee what's going on.

The world hasn't gone mad but a lot of people areseriously struggling in many ways.

And if you're down do people want to pick you up? Ah no, they start a thread about benefits claimants (all under one sweep). Sorrento told me last week that if Dh is amde redundant I should be palced in a workhouse with my children. LEA's and SS set up their provision for famillies in ways that preent the famillies getting access to work (pick up times on school routes, lack of SN childcare, big deposits requested by nurseries etc). Insurance companies compel Landlords to effectvely throw anyone who has the misfortune of needing to claim HB after redundancy onto the streets......

We talk about the things we give our kids like violin lessons and 5 a day and don't eat a fairy cake or you will die, then the most important thing of all- security- is damaged by society in a way that we cannot then repair as we all live miles away from anyone who could help such as family.

Copy of report here

Interesting reading! (I'm pleased to see that Belgium where I now is ranked no. 1 for education ). I think the UK could learn lots of lessons from the Belgian system.

Tackling poverty is a huge task. There's plenty of it here too, but the difference as I see it is the amount of investment made in facilities for children/families here.

Nursery care is subsidised and tax deductible (in fact all childcare, even hol clubs is).

Kindergarten available from 2.5 yo. This is free.

Most schools are open between 7.30 and 6pm with optional homework clubs or activity clubs.

Wednesday afternoons are set aside for sports/other activities.

Inset days are covered by a "garderie" at the school.

There are a huge range of options for school holidays - ranging from ones run by the local education dept (6 euros a day incl lunch) to paid activities - sports/languages/dance/arts and crafts etc, and often subsidised trips.

There are lots of sports facilities which are very cheap to use. Kids are encouraged to take part in sporting activities.

The scouting movement is huge here. Most Sundays you see the groups out and about in the parks/at local attractions.

There are lots of disco/youth club activities on Fri/Sat nights.

There are lots of parks and well maintained playgrounds.

There is just so much for kids to do!

This report does not surprise me at all. I see a lot of very unhappy kids in otherwise apparently well off households as well as less well off households.

Agree with a lot of the sentiment Peachy expresses Our society is broken top to bottom. In large measure it is caused by the incessant pressure on everyone by employers and the insane cost of property that forces families into a position where both parents have to work long hours or single parents are trapped in social housing on benefits.

Kids need to feel secure (and loved) and I know my kids value the fact that Mummy and Daddy are always there when they wake up and always there when they go to sleep. I am very lucky to be in that position and I know many other parents cannot be in that position. I feel sorry for them and their children that they live under constant and immense pressure.

agree with the other ideas but also think there's something very wrong about society's attitudes to kids. Adults are sometimes too scared to interact with other peoples' children, with small ones because of paedophile panic and parents with that 'how dare you tell MY child off' attitude, teenagers because they are demonised and people are scared of groups of teenagers hanging around.

This may be nostalgia, but I think there were healthier attitudes when I was growing up, when we all played out and any passing adult would have helped us if we got into trouble, or told us off if we were causing trouble. Children are hidden away in their own homes much more now.

Mind you, no-one knew how prevalent child abuse was in those days either, so I guess it was less likely to be picked up.

Yes edam. No one is particularly involved. No one dares tell off a few kids behaving badly in the street.

The converse is, people don't get involved when a strange child might be in trouble either.

If you saw a child struggling while being put into a car, are you more likely to think "oh poor woman, I know so well what you're going through/thank god my lot are older now and I don't have to do that any more" or would you intervene and ask the child if that really is their mummy?

Juxal, do you think we ought to think "I wonder if that child belongs to that Mummy"? I'm not being arsey, I'm interested in what you are thinking. It wouldn't occur to me to worry about whether a tamtrumming child actually belongs to the adult in question, I would assume it was the end of a long day for parent/carer and child.

I think it's more difficult when faced with the scenario of a child clearly being slapped/hit (in public) by their parent/carer. I'm guessing you can't intervene (strictly speaking not my business...), but that is more likely to stick in my mind.....

It wouldn't occur to me to wonder whether the child and parent belonged together either. I was just wondering.

Ok, phew (was wondering if I was particularly blase about things....)

maybe it has more to do with the national pysche - a nation of miserable feckers.

i am v. sceptical about reports like this, the way statistics are gathered from country to country will vary wildly and render the results nonsense.

I agree with Mrsruffalo. It's not material stuff or lack of it, and despite what you would beleive education is OK, as is health care for the most part, and few people are starving. It's down to the way we treat children and the attitudes to them. Teenagers are not all feral monsters, children playing without adult supervision are not going to mug you or smash your windows, most children don't drink or take drugs. Children are the same as they always were. It's how the adult world relates to them that is different.

I am also very sceptical about this type of report.

However, I was interested that France was last in the domain "children's relationships". As a long time resident of France I always feel that the French, as compared with other nationalities, are exceptionally bad at interpersonal relationships...

"We talk about the things we give our kids like violin lessons and 5 a day and don't eat a fairy cake or you will die, then the most important thing of all- security- is damaged by society in a way that we cannot then repair as we all live miles away from anyone who could help such as family.
"

And what peachy said!

Having lived in other countries too, I would say that there is a very negative attitude in the UK towards children. For instance, it has always struck me as strange that Brits don't like to eat with their children and that taking children to a restaurant in this country is percieved by many to be a very big no-no. But then most don't see sitting down with ones family for a meal as a priority which I find very sad (and I do realise that this is not possible for everyone).

I don't know the answers but I do know that 10 years of Labour throwing money at the problem of child poverty has only made it worse. I can't see how two parents working full time so that their children have to be in breakfast club, school then after school club is good for children or family life in general. This I blame on the 'we must own our own home, otherwise we are failures' attitude so prevalent in the UK which, although started by Maggie was enthusiastically taken up by Labour. In fact, one could argue that mass home ownership is not a good thing for society in general, but that's a whole other thread.

Madwoman - it's all on hold still, but having been over in Sept last year I'm even more keen to go! Well done to get a job - I'll start a thread in the emigration section later to catch up properly.

Callisto - I don't think that the British habit of not taking children to restaurants is very important in the big scheme of things, though. I think that it is largely due to two other cultural trends in the UK - the first being that restaurant-going has only recently become a widespread phenomenon and secondly (and perhaps more importantly) the British put their children to bed much earlier than almost any other nationality I have ever come across!

anna - I totally agree with that! I'm at work all day and when I get home I want to see my DC. So 9 times out of 10 we eat together (not always as they can't always wait till 6 or 7). And then they might want help with hw and they want me to read to them. They don't go to bed late when it's a school night but certainly they are up later than many other children we know.

I enjoy eating out with my DC. They are generally good company.

OrmIrian - I find it very perplexing, this British early bed time thing!

We have just got back from a week's holiday, and for the very first time in her life DD (4.5) has gone to bed before our dinner for a whole week. That was because she was so completely knackered from being in the pool all day - and we didn't mind her crashing because we'd seen her all day anyway!

I never really understood how it is actually possible to fall asleep at 7.30. For me 7.30 is still late afternoon ! Mind you, I'm shocked that there seems to be a huge number of small children here in Italy who go to bed at 11. I find myself by it.