STOP. read this. it's so important.

[Heathcliffscathy]

can you believe that in iraq the americans are kidnapping the women of wanted people to flush them out....i can't believe it...the invasion was meant to safeguard democracy and human rights wasn't it????

please don't do what everyone else is doing and ignore this article

did you hear john humphrys grilling jack straw on today this morning?

sorry hmc...didn't mean to bulldoze you

no bk, what happened?

You didn't bulldoze me. I just realised that I had been spectacularly simplistic with my earlier post. Should be me who

....just read the article. Thanks to bring that to our attention, I think that being so far from the place and only seeing "sanitised" images of the war in Iraq it is difficult to imagine how much people had to suffer to that extent so a little number of countries can "ensure" a better life out of supposed terrorism worries.

All the Spanish people I knew were against the war, however there were very good indicators that Aznar (then president and the one who supported Bush and Tony) was to get reelected. As you may know Aznar was repudiated and lost the election few days after the Madrid attacks. I suppose that having the reality of war at the doorstep put somethings in balance and the people decided to use their vote to limit or withdraw the involvement of the country in such a dodgy war (Though the attack was not orchestrated by Iraq). Seeing these things it really makes me sad that two marionetes like Bush and Blair are reelected just because they keep the healthy and very priviliged lifestyle of their countries, even when not messing with other countries would bring a very slight difference to their lifestyles: I was studying at the US at the time of the Gulf war, Kuwait and their people were heavily affected by the war while most americans I knew were just complaining about how badly their home economics were suffering since the raise in petrol prices! even when the rise was something that they all could easily afford .

sophable, you can listen to it listen again

it's the 8.10 Jack Straw in Iraq item

Thanks Sophable. I love reading MN threads because it offers a refreshing perspective on world news (amongst other things) that I wouldn't get elsewhere.

Whether that smug get Blair likes it or not (and judging by his reaction on tv he no like) Iraq weighs heavy on the conscience of a lot of people. He lied about the reasons and yes it is good Saddam has gone but not under a veil of lies of the Tony and Dubya show.

It worries me if Blair gets in again on a majority will he follow Dubyas next crazy plan? Blair and his awful wife are amazingly arrogant to the point I would even rather (deep breath TIBS) see anyone else in power. Oh God, I nearly said Tory there!

that's just it tibts...if he retains a large majority, what we're saying is: we don't give a toss about whether you lie to parliament, kill people in our name for reasons other than you have stated, trample on human rights, as long as we (totally wrongly btw) believe that you'll keep the economy safe we don't care....

I don't think he will retain a big majority, and I think it's going to be a very interesting time after the election.

My local (labour) MP has said that if he gets back into parliament, he will immediately start campaigning to get TB removed.

I'm with him all the way!

that's a v good reason for voting for him imo caligula, but WHY haven't they kicked him out already...they must know that their chances of big majority would have been far far better with gb as leader surely????

I suspect they don't want a big majority. Let's face it, even with GB at the helm, he is a co-architect of New Labour, we're not going to have any different policies with him in charge. He didn't resign over the war, did he, Robin Cook and (eventually) Clare Short did. With a small majority, the backbencher's voices will be much louder and more influential - and with any luck, will stop draconian anti-terror laws, ID cards etc., going through. GB has not once stood up and said he's against these policies.