Marnie Pearce has lost her appeal against her adultery conviction.

[wannaBe]

here

I don't know the story on this. Is she a woman who slept with someone else, which (whether we agree or not, is a crime in that country) and she has been punished for that crime according to the laws of that country?

If she hasn't broken their laws then it's terrible, but, if she has broken their laws then I'm afraid that she has to accept the punishment.

I don't agree at ALL that it should be a crime, I think that's a dreadful thing, but I also think that if you go to a country, you accept that you are required to abide by the laws of that country, as we expect people who come to visit / live in britain abide by the laws set here.

Afaik she didn't have an affair, but her husband said she did. He on the other had, did have an affair.

I'm sure someone will correct me on that if I'm wrong.

I hope her sons are considered in all of this, and what is best for them. Which I am sure would be staying with their mother and having regular contact with the father. Not having the mother deported and never seeing her again.

hecate see

here

She had already separated from her husband afaik and was having a cup of tea with a male friend, but the husband has used this fact to have her jailed for adultery.

When she is released she will be deported from Dubai and will most likely never see her children again.

ah, I see. That is terrible! Surely not legal? No proof of adultery?! A cup of tea is hardly being caught with your pants down.

re the father having an affair - Is it only against the law for women to commit adultery then? why was he not prosecuted?

iirc (will try to find link) the husband produced three used condoms as evidence of the "affair" and the woman could not prove they weren't her's . And the father has justified his relationship with another woman as his pursuing a second marriage as is his right in dubai law.

There are just too too many conflicting opinions and rumours surrounding both parties in this case here in Dubai.
The accepted point over here though is that whether or not she has adulterated, nobody should go to prison for it.
Her poor sons.

what is being reported in dubai?

Hecate, I really don't understand how it's easy for women who enjoy human rights in a democracy to then say human beings elsewhere shouldn't enjoy the same rights, regardless of what the 'law' is and especially when they know these are the same laws that imprison rape victims for the crime of being raped. Please explain it to me. I don't want to get your back up, but how can any of us think this is acceptable?

I didn't say it was right - in fact, I specifically said that I did not think it should be a crime and that I thought it was dreadful.

I also said that I didn't know the back story and was commenting on the story as presented - a woman committed adultery in a country where adultery is illegal and punishable by imprisonment.

Now, like I said, I don't agree that that should be the case, but my point was - that it is the case. It is illegal in Dubai to commit adultery. What I was saying is that if she had committed adultery in a country where (whether we think it is right or wrong) adultery is a crime, then she is punished because that is the law. Because her other choice was to not commit adultery (the 'crime'), wasn't it?

However, wannabe and others then put me right and gave me more information than was in the original link, and it seems there is doubt that she actually did break their law.

I'm not saying that the law is right, as it happens I think it is very wrong. I was saying that if you know a law exists, whether you agree with it or not, then you break it knowing the consequences of doing so.

Adultery is a choice you make, rape is not, and that is also a big difference.

And you haven't got my back up at all, btw. You make a very good point. You are taking a far broader view, whereas I was focusing entirely on committing adultery knowing you are doing it in a country where it is a crime.

Message withdrawn

Okay. I take your point. I respectfully disagree with it however.

Amnesty International are involved because they assert, as many do, including you, that the law itself is inhumane. For them the back story, or whether a law has been broken or not, isn?t an issue ? as far as basic human rights are concerned. Even if it was an issue, how do you stop people falling in love with people other than their spouses, especially in cultures where marriages are arranged at best and forced at worse? You can?t. Especially in that particular culture. All you can do it punish people for it and the most vulnerable most often, i.e. women and children. People don?t ?choose? to fall in love and that?s what words like ?adultery? gloss over with all the immoral implications attached to the word, when in fact, the whole system is immoral and a crime against basic human rights.

The fact that Marnie wasn?t indigenous to the gulf only highlights for me how many women lose their kids (and their kids lose their mothers) because of such laws. By writing to my MP about this, I hopefully not only help Marnie and her kids, but also every other women under threat from this law, whether she realises it or not. It?s part of a longer political process.

If it?s a question of ?law? then I side with universal laws on human rights, and not cultural relativism. That?s just my position and what I?m arguing for. My MP agrees thank fk and is raising it in the Commons. If we all agree, then this is one way to at least try to affect a positive change for millions of people, mostly Muslim women, not just Marnie and her two boys.

We certainly both agree that the law itself is disgusting and would add our voices to the cry for change.

I think what I have done, is to see the unemotional facts - know the law, break it and face the consequences. don't break the law if you don't want to go to prison. People don't choose to fall in love, but they do choose to sleep with someone.

I think I haven't given full consideration to emotions and how they can drive you, and, like you say, the lack of choice of partner many have in the first place makes it even more wrong.

You know what, MT? I'm wrong. My view takes accounts of the facts, but I've been cold. I haven't looked properly at the humanity of it. People aren't machines. I'm a bit ashamed of myself really.

the law in islm requires four witnesses to the actual act of adultery. having a cup of tea isnt adultery.

You know, I'm usually the one who gets wrong for looking at stuff unemotionally. It certainly helps at times, but I guess you are right, for me, this isn't an abstract discussion that I am viewing from a distance, because there is a woman in jail now and two sons who have been ripped from their mothers arms on the whim of a man and his flase accusations - the difference being the state they live in gives a mans word more weight than a womans, by law.

I'm sorry if I came over a bit too stong there Hecate. It wasn't my intention to make you think you were in any way 'wrong'. You're entitled to feel however you feel about a subject. I just was arguing the emotional case, not something I do a lot, I grant you. So I'm a bit ashamed of myself for making you feel bad, if that's what I've done. Thats not the way I like to argue, even if it often ends up that way on here, with little time to type/explain, etc. I only wanted to plant a seed and cajole a few people into thinking a bit more about it at best. I really don't want to join the legions on here who make other MN'etters feel like shit for having a different opinion.

Hi Squonk, the details of the 'crime' and 'supporting evidence' are on the links here

The whole hypocrisy of the case in general is that as she has been 'tried' by Shariah Law, said law states that four witnesses are needed to confirm the 'act'

Gossips in Dubai talk about having condoms and all sorts as evidence, so I wouldn't go down the track particularly that the woman had nothing more than a cup of tea with another man.
It's a horrible, terrible case all around. Those boys are the ones suffering. Hope the judge and jury feel good about that one - and the rat of a father too.

You can read the official statements and watch her kids being taken from her in the links Escape. There is no need to rely on gossip.

Expats in Dubai have very bravely held a silent protest for her actually

I'm not relying on gossip at all, I've never met the woman, but you know what the jungle drums are like, especially in aplace like this where there is no transparent coverage. you here all sorts.

My stance on this is that it doesn't matter whether she had sex with the whole football team, does it, she shouldn't be in prison , full stop. Then we can devate the facts of the case as well, which don't stack up,
Of course I've read all the official statements and seen the video. Can debate it until the cows come home I guess. Have donated to her fund FWIW

Poor woman, this is discusting

sorry for typos

I take it Marnie converted to Islam when she married her husband? If so, she would be bound by Islamic law to ever only be in the presence of her husband or other male relative when an unrelated male is around. Being separated does not mean a thing until she is divorced. As unfair as it seems to us, she had the onus of behaving whiter than white till she was completely divorced from her dh. As this case shows, when the gloves are off, some men will do whatever it takes to 'win'. The 'law' and cultural mores were on his side and he took advantage of it.

The Gulf States despite the illusion of freedoms follow the same strict form of Islam that the Saudis do. Even though her ex is Egyptian and probably not a follower of the form of Islam in the Gulf, he is using their laws to his advantage. She ran a big risk and lost, sadly.

I can't see her ever getting her boys back, tbh.

oh no, MT, you didn't make me feel 'wrong', you made me think about it from a different angle. I am always happy to be challenged and to have the opportunity to re-examine my perspective. After thinking carefully about what you'd said, I realised you were right and I'm big enough and ugly enough to admit it!

(If I'd still thought my view was right I'd have argued till the cows come home! )

Good

I stumbled across this story on the BBC website a couple of days ago and haven't been able to sleep since. Can't believe the media are not interested in this story what a bunch of hypocrites they are
I have also found a petiton site to fight her deportation. Again, can't believe there are only 45 signatures on there! So please sign up and spread the word- the link is below
www.thepetitionsite.com/14/freedom-for-marnie-pearce
Also, we need to raise the profile of Marnie's case as much as we can. Maybe try calling up your local radio stations. Atleast once you are on air they can't cut you off until you've atleast had a go at talking about it- and thats all we need- for me people to hear about this and hopefully that will put some pressure on our government to do something about it.