This would not have happened if these men were white

[spokette]

Reading this story reminds me just how institutionally racist are the police.

It is bad enough when a black person is pulled over for having the temerity to drive a nice car. Now we cannot even window shop without being suspected of being thieves.

spokette: to be fair, whilst as you can see I'm vehemently against racism, certain crimes do involve a significantly higher proportion of minority groups, e.g to quote from Operation Trident's website "75% of London's gun crime involves the victim and suspect both coming from the capital's black communities".

If therefore a young black man is found shot dead outside a club in Clapton, the question which should be asked is whether it is racist to have as a working assumption that the murderer was from the black community based on statistical evidence (like that in the quote above), or should the police disregard it and assume that it is equally likely that the murderer was black or white (or whatever ethnic group you wish)?

To me, the point is that the police should be independent and impartial in approaching their investigation but take into account all relevant data. It is absolutely not wrong to target a black person as a suspect, but the decision to do so must be based on reasonable and impartial evidence linked to the specific crime, not supposition. (Guess this would also cover mayorquimby's point in that if the police do end up arresting a black guy, they can show that they acted correctly throughout the prcoess).

It does happen though, when at university I had a friend who was 'frightfully' nice, public boarding school, rp accent, played rugby and polo etc,in short your quintessential upper class nice guy. He wasn't flashy or ostentatious but did drive a BMW (present from his dad). He had literally lost count of the number of times he had been stopped by the police, and this is a guy in a ralph lauren shirt and chinos...

Don't suppose it could have had anything to do with the fact he was mixed race with a black mother could it

He ended up having to sell the BMW and buying a vauxhall corsa instead simply to avoid being stopped by the police.

"My dh once got pulled over because the policeman said he looked like ' a well known criminal' (he is white)"

so all white people look the same to this policeman that's racist

But every black man I know has had an experience of being targeted by the police sheerly because of their colour. Personally I am more inclined to take into account their experiences rather then the speculation on these posts.

Does not surprise me at all
When i first moved here to cheshire the local newspaper ran a piece about black people being stopped and questioned in Prestbury...and when they complained they were told by the police who then repeated it to the local newspaper that it was because 'we don't see many black people walking about in prestbury'

I was like 'farkme..where have i moved my family to'

i also got followed in shops a lot when i first moved here.

Troutpout, your story reminds me of the black farmer who was harrased by police in Leicestershire on a numerous occasions because they thought he was stealing food from his own field!

OK, I think I'll take Tiresville's advice.

I do think first hand experience is far more valuable than my speculation.

I know quite a lot of black and asian people and none of them have any problems with the police / being stopped etc., but (being totally honest), none of them 'stands out' - they all conform to what I suppose 'middle class society' expects.

Are these friends black men or black women Haribo?

Well, both, but I suppose nowadays, it is mainly women...

When I was at university, a member of staff thought I was the cleaner, despite me turning up with an armful of books. Obviously a black woman equals cleaner - could not possibly be there to study.

Spokette, actually the white british do complain about white immigrants as well ? the level of hostility to Poles, Slovaks and other Eastern Europeans is pretty nasty and quite frightening. To say nothing of their hostility to travellers ? the word Pikey is still considered perfectly acceptable by people who are horrified by the N word.

But I don't dispute that racism based solely on skin colour is real and that it is alive and well in the police force.