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Original poster

Six Month Teacher training plan

95 replies

AtheneNoctua · 10/03/2009 09:48

People could qualify as a teacher in England in six months rather than the usual year, under new government plans.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7933690.stm

Is this good or bad? Discuss please.

OP posts:

KingRolo · 10/03/2009 09:53

Well, the PGCE only runs from Sept - June so a move from 11 months to 9 isn't as dramatic as it sounds.

Original poster

AtheneNoctua · 10/03/2009 09:54

PGCE?

OP posts:

OnlyWantsOne · 10/03/2009 09:55

... would the training be more intense to compensate?

Im on the fence about this, I want to do a PGCE after my degree, and if it lasted 6 months then in one respect, It would mean I'd be working and earning sooner, but not good if going to be lower standing or not respected by employers.

wheelsonthebus · 10/03/2009 13:27

Are there jobs for all these would-be teachers? I thought there were only vacancies in maths and science.

MrsMattie · 10/03/2009 13:29

Ooh, this will rile some of the teacher getting up on their high horse on the 'numeracy for QTS thread yesterday .

Personally, I think it's a crap idea. Good teachers need good, solid training. This idea that we can take an out of work banker and turn him into a fantastic maths teacher in 6 mths is a load of (desperate!) cobbler's

gigglewitch · 10/03/2009 13:33

oooh. well I did the four year undergrad primary teacher training, so I wonder how they do it in one academic year already.... six months sounds totally bonkers to me, they can't possibly learn enough of the curriculum and all the basic skills of teaching to get there in that time. I just think the pressure and intensity of it would overwhelm people.

gigglewitch · 10/03/2009 13:35

WOTB - I'd imagine that they would have to specify subjects as they already do for the so-called fast-track training that's already in place . Presumably...

goblinvalley · 10/03/2009 13:37

Unfortunately the problem with this isn't in how long the training is.....it is whether you have the the right personality for teaching

Teaching is a very hard (exhausting) job that requires certain qualities that i don't think you can teach someone. Improve, yes....but some people just cannot talk to children, no matter how qualified they maybe.

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 10/03/2009 14:22

Yes, but its not as if they will take all-comers, just those who do have the aptitude. It will be a much faster learnign curve for those who have been in the working world than those fresh out of uni who have only ever known school or college. I think its an excellent idea, in fact even better if ALL teachers had had to do a spell in other jobs first. My son's teacher was a farmer for 20 years before he became a teacher, and has a wonderful wealth of experience to bring to the job.

nickytwotimes · 10/03/2009 14:26

DH is a teacher and it took three years for him to get a permanent contract. That meant no mortgage/car loan/etc. Not ideal for the main earner in ths house.
Many of his frineds still ahven't got a permanent job.
No point traingin for a job that isn't there.

slug · 10/03/2009 15:01

After 6 months they still have the rabbit-in-the-headlights-please-don't-make-me-go-in-front-of-a-class-on-my-own look.

There are not THAT many teacher jobs out there. It's worth remembering if people are in training, they don't appear on the unemployment statistics.

KingRolo · 10/03/2009 15:05

Presumably the 6 months would still be followed by a probationary year (on full pay) in order for the teacher to get Qualified Teacher Status.

I'm more concerned about plans for tne fast tracking of people from industry into headships in just 4 years. I just can't see that working.

QuantitativeMeasure · 10/03/2009 15:07

I really admire teachers, it is a job that I could never consider. I would hope that the people being considered for this 6 months training have the right qualities for a teacher as I imagine it could be an incredibly demading role.

I think that you have to have great strength of character to work in most secondary schools these days, it must be pretty tough and not for the faint hearted- as I said, its not something that I could do, and I work in mental health.

duchesse · 10/03/2009 15:23

My PGCE was pretty damn hard work. Very very full time, with placements and all they entailed (lesson preparation, marking, evaluating etc), essays, reading, lectures, etc... All in all about 60-70 hours a week for a full academic year.

It's hard to see how they're going to be able to deliver the same amount of content so many fewer months, but then people do do GTS (I think it's called that) where they teach full-time and do academic stuff, so I suppose it must be possible.

ExtraEggs · 10/03/2009 16:13

Surely if they are intelligent enough to be teachers then a degree in their choosen field and 6 months on how to fill the forms in should be sufficent.
I suspect teaching is something you can either do or you can't.
I know somebody who was in middle sets for most things at school, not invited to stay on for A Levels and went off to be a mortgage admin for 10 years who has now blagged her way onto a 3 year teaching degree course, I'm more worried about that tbh.

bettany · 10/03/2009 18:21

I understand that in America, there is no teacher training qualification at all. All you need is a degree, and you can apply for teaching jobs.

I am hoping to retrain as a teacher when I go back to work, and this sounds like excellent news.

KayHarkersHeartBelongsToTen · 10/03/2009 18:48

Well, at least I won't get quite so much stick for teaching my own kids.

TheFallenMadonna · 10/03/2009 18:59

Regarding teaching being something you can or can't do I certainly think there are some people who should never do it. I'm not sure you can tell who they are before they actually start doing it though. And I'm certain it's something you can get better at. It most definitely isn't a knowledge of your subject and an understanding of what forms to fill in

I think the reason I'm slightly iffy about it is that given the emphasis on Maths and Science, it needs to be remembered that in Maths, the subject is quite possibly very different from when the banker in question was in school (depending on their age), so it isn't just going in and teaching what and how you were taught. And in Science you will be teaching out of your specialism for at least some of the time in most schools, particularly in KS3. And gaps to fill in regarding your own specialism. I am a biochemistry graduate so teaching ecology, while still biology, is a bit of a leap for me. So as well as the classroom management, child development and pedagogy aspects of teaching, there will be a significant amount of subject knowledge to brush up on.

BUT - more Maths and Physics specialists - hurrah!

Original poster

AtheneNoctua · 10/03/2009 19:29

I don't think that is true about America. My sister had a degree in anthropology and was told she would need to go back to school in order to become a teacher in the state school system. Maybe it depends on the area. But Chicago public schools aren't exactly known for their superior quqlity. When I was a kid they were regarded as the worst school in the whole country.

OP posts:

Reallytired · 10/03/2009 19:36

I think that someone like an experienced cover supervisior with a degree could probably manage to become a good teacher with six months training.

However being a good teacher is nothing to do with degree classification or how high powered your previous job was. It requires a special set of qualities.

I think that a PGCE should be a year, unless someone can prove exceptionally strong experience with children. (Ie. Higher level teaching status and years of experience)

wrinklytum · 10/03/2009 19:37

I heard this on the radio tonight whilst cooking tea.

Apparently the conservative party have put forward a proposal of the training for fast track grads to be SIX WEEKS!

I personally feel that 6 months is an insufficient time to train for teaching.Having shared a house with students doing a full time PGCE I know that the workload was hellish,and six months to do all the academic study,lesson planning and teaching practice is nuts.

I am sure a lot of teachers out there who undertook a 3/4 year degree in Education would agree.

I did a pt PGCE course for teaching adults which was quite intensive.It took a year but was in no way comparable to a full time course for educating children.

I hink this proposal is madness.

wrinklytum · 10/03/2009 19:41

Think!

duchesse · 10/03/2009 19:45

Ah, there's nothing applying a short-term solution to a very long-term problem...

Got a problem with teachers leaving the profession because of poor discipline and over-long hours? Simple! Bring in floods of barely qualified people who will stay maybe 6 months- doesn't matter, there will be lots of them- who cares about turnover? It's all bums on seats.

6 weeks???? Bunch of nutters

< cynical, me? >

duckyfuzz · 10/03/2009 19:47

I run a teacher training course and have found that the career changers find it much harder to adjust to teaching than those straight out of uni, because it is so demanding and time consuming. I also find that its only after 6 months or so that they are beginning to get the hang of it and really finding their feet, so I think it would be a disaster - yes there would be a massive surge in recruitment, but this would be followed a couple of years later by an equally massive dip as they all leave to return to their 'proper' jobs! I also fail to see how the govt can justify doing something like this whilst at the same time claiming teachers are now better trained than ever and that teaching is to be a master level profession

twinsetandpearls · 10/03/2009 19:55

For many trainee teachers 6 months would not be long enough. I doubt that many of our students that we have in at the moment are ready to go into schools and they have been training for six months.

However some teachers would be ready. I think I was. This will not apply to all student teachers. But I dont see how this will make teaching more tempting.