n. ireland deaths

[JustCallMeGoat]

i can't quite believe the only reference to this on mumsnet is this

don't know whether to laugh or cry

i've always had mixed emotions about the N.Ireland conflict. of course i condemn these cowardly murders as they are abhorrent to me.
but i've always wondered if they are abhorrent to me because i'm an irish catholic living in dublin.i'm what has been described as a celtic tiger cub so have never been truely affected by the troubles, and always had a "why can't they just let it go" attitude.
but if i lived in the north, in a bad area and felt that a foreign oppressor was present in my home land would i "just let it go"?
i'd like to think if i did become involved it would be through political and legitimate means rather than violence.
however i think most can accept that the modern IRA has more to do with drugs,guns and accumulating money through fear for the men at the top than independence.

as i say i condemn these murders, but then again if i'd been around in the early 19th century i'm sure i would have condemned the easter rising as many did at the time, but it is only through those acts of terrorism (and lets be fair it is terrorism if you fail to achieve your aims and rebellion if you succeed) that i now live in a republic.
i'm not trying to justify these murders, but it really does go to show, one mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter.

i do hold out far more hope for the peace process now than i would have had this happened a decade ago. luckily these mindless thugs no longer seem to have the grass roots support and these latest attacks are simple opportunism at the economic down turn.

**early 20th century.
god my history is bad but not that bad

We will still be taking DC's in June to stay with DD's Godfather, I will expect higher security but they can't be allowed to rule peoples lives again. There was a really interesting programme on R4 yesterday about the 'peace' walls in Belfast, can reccommend anyone to listen to it on listen again.

I really hope so.All my relatives are good honest people with nice lives and they have no desire to return to those days.It is a huge shame and i hope it is stopped before it really starts.

my brother was one of the paramedics who took the shooting victims to hospital. How anyone can justify shooting innocent people is beyond me. I hope that public opinion in N Ireland can stop this from becoming bigger

lal that is awful for him.Lets hope its a one off and they are caught

how dreadful lal123.

agree with the earlier comment about "one man's terrorist,another man's freedome fighter". Is there a political/religious conflict anywhere in the world that this couldn't be applied to?

I always wondered if we had seen the end of the IRA because at the end of the day the meaning of Sinn Fein is "ourselves alone" and NI is still part of the UK...

i think it will be a long time till we truely see the end of them. while hopefully it will never see the same base of popularity, the internet and prevelance of 24 hours news channells means that 5 nutters and a can of petrol can gain international recognition under the banner of a terrorist group, as was seen often in the aftermath of 9/11. this can feed the ego of these people and also make unorganised lynch mobs, sound like highly organised secret terrorist groups.
even the last 10 years with the splits between the provos and the R-IRA, dissedent republicans etc, shws that there is no cohesion so no one can speak for nationalist terrorism as a whole any more. one group decommissioning doesn't mean others have.

Frogfish is so correct. It was never something middle-class young men got drawn into. It was the unemployed, broke, resentful, frustrated young men from BOTH sides who got drawn into it. Higher up the social scale, in the more prosperous areas, protestants and catholics mix extremely well..

I so hope that there is no retaliation...

I'd like to know how much overlap there is between these groups and the drugs gangs in the republic. The violence in the north may have vanished as the Celtic Tiger was in full flow - the violence in parts of Dublin and Limerick rumbled on.

Violent dinosaurs with weapons. Totally tragic and so wrong. To think they beleive they have the moral high ground

They were saying on the radio yesterday (peace walls one) that the violence is mainly 16 to 24 year olds from the poorer areas which adds up.

MayorQuimby, in what way are northern Irish catholics being oppressed? denied right to worship in a catholic church? denied an education? denied social housing? opportunities? benefits? jobs? What is it about the way NI is run that is so 'foreign'?

I am from the south and I also think "please let it go now".

I think we should be working on making both sides realise how similar they are. Could any protestant or catholic who strays far enough away from their church childhood to become involved with a sectarian group tell you what the differences are!?

Mixed religion schools in NI. That's what I'd do if I were running the place! When the 'enemy' is faceless he can be demonised.

stleger, I believe it's all about drugs and turf wars now, north and south.

Believing in a cause and feeling martyred about something is part of their identity and I imagine, it validates them, in their own eyes, and allows them to rationalise every crime they commit.

When my brother returned to live there he had just been through withdrawal from drugs and was trying to make a life for himself and was targeted constantly fron these 'groups' who seemed to assume that he would be interested.It is true that young men in the more impoverished areas do get sucked in A bit like gangs in the US they want to belong somewhere.Unfortunately they end up doing the dirty work for those higher up the chain

"MayorQuimby, in what way are northern Irish catholics being oppressed? denied right to worship in a catholic church? denied an education? denied social housing? opportunities? benefits? jobs? What is it about the way NI is run that is so 'foreign'?"

i don't believe they are oppressed at all. i was merely questioning wether my objective abhorrence would be so forthcoming if i was a disenfranchised youth living in northern ireland. i was talking more about how easy it would be to get drawn in if i was from a bad area up north.
i mean look at some of the youth in england or the republic who believe that their own government are out to get them and somehow to blame for their circumstances and aren't doing enough. i could just imagine that belief becoming ten fold if you happened to believe you were being ruled by a foreign government who you believed had no right to be there.
that was my only point, not that i agreed with them, i've done nothing but condemn them and stated that they are more about drugs on this thread. but that i could see how someone young could get sucked into it.

Hi everyone

I just wanted to say, i live here in craigavon, 5 min from lismore and we are all really shocked and saddened by what happened last night, and one thing i know for sure is that no one in this community wants to go back to the troubles and how they were before, and for one thing they arent going to imtimidate me. I dont care what they call themselves, real ira or continuity, or whatever they just murderous cowards and i would say this has more to do with drugs, money and power than politics

thats all I wanted to say,

Bridget

I tend to agree that the drugs and money combination are as important as any 'cause'.

Murderous thugs is about right. I too am hoping desperately that there wont be retaliations or tit-for-tat attacks. Let them face universal condemnation without the gratification of other groups getting involved and muddying the waters.

Was disgusted at the statement that the pizza delivery men were collaborators. Revolting sentiment to have when actually they are just people trying their best to earn money to pay to live.

And Gerry Adams' statement was shockingly callous and inept. "counter-productive" as a description of the gunning down of unarmed soldiers and pizza delivery men!

By gratification, I should clarify - I mean that I think that the intent of the terrorists at the moment is to almost invite retaliation because it would legitimise their claim that this is a war they are fighting in. So would be their gratification.

I live in NI and I am so shocked by these murders. My heart goes out to all the families.What a waste of life.
There are no reasons for this, these people are psychopaths and nothing else.

Oh right sorry MQ, I see what you mean. Get it, get it.

Bravo Bridget, Murderers whatever they call themselves.

The new murderers.

I was so shocked by the news in NI...but also by the language being used to describe it.

Over the last few years numerous attempts to mortar police stations, bomb policemens cars, shoot policemen have been prevented through good policing and human fallibility thank God
Had this not been the case they estimate that at least another 45 PSNI would have been murdered

But at least this hasn't derailed the "peace" process

Is it peace because Gordon and Gerry say it is or because this sort of thing has ended for good?

I'm from NI too and lived there through the worst of the violence. This just made me so sad - I thought those days were long gone and my family could live in peace.

Hopefully now that the majority have tasted a life free from violence they won't allow everything to disintegrate.

My thoughts are with the families of those young soldiers and that poor policeman. Such a waste .