Disposable nappies - new government-backed recycling initiative - another ill-thought through outburst of support from barmy Brown???

[foodonthecarpet]

What planet are they on????

In the news: "Thousands of tonnes of used disposable nappies are to be recycled into everything from tiles to bicycle helmets to energy from extracted methane, under a new scheme." (Times 20.02.09)
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article5769183.ece

If the Government is OK with disposable nappies being used, surely it would be better if they were to encourage the big nappy manufacturers to make biodegradable nappies instead?

Given the right materials, they can supposedly safely be broken down (in 8 weeks!!) using large wormeries which turn the nappy and its contents into enzyme-rich compost. And we wouldn't need loads of big energy-using factories to built in order to break down nappies? Its feels like a problem is being used to address a problem, rather than figuring out an alternative from the outset.

Is there a big tax payment (or sim.) coming the Govts way from the company setting up the factories? I can't think why else they think this is in any way useful or anyhting close to progress.

!!!

x

More bullshi,t excuse pun from the we don't give a shit (pun intended) cos we won't be in power in a years time so lets spend moreeeeee party !!!

"barmy Brown" - you auditioning for the Sun?

If it was a viable alternative, companies would make biodegradable nappies. But then the price of nappies would be sky high and most people wouldn;t be able to afford them in the numbers they needed them. That is tantomount to forcing people on lower incomes, whose lives are already hard, to use old fashioned cloth nappies. Lets not forget the drudgery disposable nappies liberated women from. Should the goals of environmentalism force women back into that drudgery? No.

So looking at it that way, 'Barmy Brown' is doing the most egalitarian thing for all of us. Good for him.

Surely the answer is laundry services for reusuables? If more people used these services their costs would come down. Subsidies should be made available to the worse off. It is more environmentally friendly as the nappies are all washed together, and avoids the drudgery argument raised above.

I have done it for years - its currently £30 a month so not that much more than using disposables. The joy of people delivering freshly laundered nappies to your door cannot be over emphasised

nothing wrong with "old fashioned" nappies - and no "drudgery" involved in washing them either - put nappy in a plastic bin, when bin is full, put napppies in washing machine, take nappies out of washing machine and put in tumble dryer, take out of tumble dryer, put back on child's bum. One extra load of washing every couple of days. Drudgery? I think not.

I agree SV. When people use the drudgery argument I cant help but think its not as if we have to put the nappies on our backs, walk 5 miles to the nearest river and scrub the nappies clean on the nearest stone!

"That is tantomount to forcing people on lower incomes, whose lives are already hard, to use old fashioned cloth nappies. Lets not forget the drudgery disposable nappies liberated women from. Should the goals of environmentalism force women back into that drudgery? No. "

Sorry I have to laugh. What has liberated women from drudgery is the washing machine!

Modern nappies are very different to the rubber pants, nappy pins and terries our granmothers used and had to boil. You can get shaped nappies with velco and many of them look gorgeous.

Even so the combination of a high quality terry nappy, motherease wraps, nappi nippas and disposible paper liners are a economic way of dealing with baby poo/wee. Also unlike children in disposibles there is a strong chance your child will be reliably toilet trained far sooner.

Admitally its next to impossible to buy high quality terries on the high street. Its a pain that you really have to get good reusuable nappies off the internet.

"Drudgery"!! snort! How ignorant.

There's nothing wrong with them if it's your choice. Washing per se is drudegery to me and I really do not want more of it.

If you care so much about this why not conduct your own experiment and measure which system is more environmentally sound vs egalitarian and then publish the pros and cons, rather than automatically criticising other peoples efforts after they have thought about this for more that the five minutes it takes to read a press article.

Erm, it's really not that hard to put some nappies in a machine, take them out and hang them up. It takes me seven minutes to hang up twenty nappies and liners. Just timed it.

Will probably take me seven minutes to re-stuff them and put them away again.

Yeah, drudgery.

Plus anecdotally children in reusuables tend to potty train way quicker. All my reusable using friends have potty trained 2 year olds. Others have 3 year olds in nappies, and all use disposables. Hence IMO reusuables actually reduce "drudgery" because you are nappy free quicker.

Drudgery schmudgery.

I wasn't making any judgement over disposables vs reusables.

I just thought it was a bit crap that the govt is backing plans that will encourage the production of chemical-filled plastic nappies. When they could instead be encouraging the big companies to make healthier, greener versions that are kinder on little bots and don't need heavy-duty recycling facilities to stop them becoming more of a landfill prob than they already are.

Whichever type of nappy you choose, I reckon the big disposable boys being made to green themselves up a bit would be more progressive than the proposed plan. Getting producers to be liable for the waste their products ultimately create could be a more productive solution. Rather than just trying to solve a problem with another problem.

Worms could be the way forward (re. my original post). (Oh and washing machines too of course).
x

P.S. MiTochondrialEve - definitely something I've thought about for way more than 5 mins

Winky - not hard, if you own a washing machine. And have room to hang up the nappies in a non-damp place.

Incentives to get more people to use reusables are great and there should be more, but some people are never going to be able to deal with washables.

So far biodegradable nappies are pretty crap so a scheme to deal with the disposables already hanging around sounds like a good plan. 3% of landfill is disposed nappies so even if people move to washables in droves there's still going to be loads of nappies for years to come.

Actually, food, I think you're right. More pressure should be put on the big producers of nappies to make them more eco. That won't happen though so meanwhile...........

How many people don't have a washing machine? Is it a serious number? I've no idea.

And with the modern nappies, put them on a radiator for an hour and they're dry very quickly.

Or there's the nappy services. Someone said before they should be subsidised.

Maybe disposible nappy companies should be forced to take back the used nappies and recycle them. Just like computer companies are supposed to take back old computers for recycling under the Weee directive. (Ie. its against the law for an organisation to put old IT kit in a skip.)

I do not have a dryer. I do not have any more space in my house for more washing drying. I already have 3 piles of laundry to sort. It is not that simple for all of us to use reusables. Not to mention people who have to use laundrettes.

Dunno how many poeple don't have a washer (or how many parents of babies, more to the point), but there's three laundrettes within 10 min walk of my house and there's always people in them, often with kids in tow.

What nappies dry in an hour? Serious question - I need to allow 24 hours for bungenius or terries, or up to 48 for Bumbles which I prefer, and that's all on racks hanging on radiators.

oh yes - most non-food items that are 'biodegradable' produce not lovely compost but a lower grade of stuff called 'soil conditioner' which is useful for putting on building sites that need decontaminating, etc. Lots of waste plants built in the last decade produce it.

Only problem is there's a saturated market. And if you can't guarantee it's faeces-free it can't be used on farmland without expensive treatment, so nappycompost would be pretty redundant.

Not saying that pushing for more-degradable nappies isn't a good idea, but looking at what can be done with all the nappies already clogging up landfill would perhaps bring faster benefits, even if the best that can be done is burning to produce energy.

I was a huge advocate of cloth with ds1. It was when I realised our hard water made them feel like concrete and smell of wee after washing that I gave in and used disposables for ds2.

If I could keep cloth ones soft and useable I would go back to them - I have hundreds in the cellar! But sadly it would mean torture for ds2's bottom.

I tried vinegar, tried tumble drying, tried everything really. The water here practically comes out of the tap white.

Forcing people/businesses to do anything is not a viable choice if you want to live in a democracy. You force them to do one thing in one area, a blackj market in disposable nappies will spring up in another. Politics is a v tricky area.

Well, we can force companies to observe certain rules about say, trade effluent, can't we? That doesn't mean we don't live in a democracy.

Perhaps there should be some sort of legislation about the environmental responsibility of companies including nappies.

The school I work at has to dispose of old IT equipment responsibly. If we don't then people in charge could potentially face large fines or even jail.

Ofcourse companies in a democracy can be forced to be responsible and so can parents.

Living in a democracy means you have a say in the rule making of society by voting for an MP. It doesn't mean you have the freedom to do as you please.