In the light of the Carol Thatcher issue....

[DumbledoresGirl]

....is the exclamation "golly!" offensive?

Just heard on Radio 4, the word derives from the Negro word god. So I suppose it has always been blasphemous, but that aside, is it now offensive?

Is heathen a term of abuse?

I always take it as a compliment and wear that badge with pride!

Well, the kind of racism we are discussing is precisely about perception.

As far as I'm aware, there are no forms of racism for which the defence 'i know I'm not racist' cuts the mustard.

And in any case, your smugness - which verges on passive-aggression in this matter - does you no favours.

'Golly' is a very old abbreviation of 'God love me, or 'Lumme!', but doubtless the utterly humourless, like the very unlovely Jo Brand, would like it to be racist, becuae that better serves their purpose.

we moved to Holland a year ago and I've been really shocked by the 'Black Pete' (Zwarte Piet) character around Christmas time. Basically he is a black 'servant' who is Santa Claus (St Nicholas) helper and comes out of a sack. He punishes the naughty children. Often there are several Piets helping one Santa. However in recent years they tried to make it more politically correct by making him nicer and just calling him Piet, but fundamentally it is a totally racist depiction of a black person with exaggerated lips, a massive afro and gold earrings. You see the figure, basically a golliwog figure on every single shop here, as dolls, stickers, posters, merchandise like mugs or flags and as blacked-up Dutch people on the street in parades etc, and kids blacked up as this character. The message this sends to kids is terrible! I imagine what it would be like being a black child here, seeing St Nicholas as the good, boss figure (white) and the black figure is secondary, subservient, comical and weird. Unbelievable stuff. Yet the Dutch have a blind spot about it and really cherish this character, I don't think they're likely to give it up.

Just a comment on this, as other parts of Europe are not half as PC as the UK on this kind of issue like racist depictions in the media or whatever.. time they changed I think!

Golly as a more polite way of saying 'God' is not racist, , it's the same as 'gosh', or like saying 'sugar' instead of 'shit'. or the French say 'masse' instead of 'merde' ...

It's not the word 'golly' that's being debated it's the word 'golliwog'. Completely different.

OP asked if the exclamation 'golly' was offensive...

Think the debate had moved on, but take your point . . .

Gemzooks, thankyou. The word under debate here is golly. I would rather those wishing to discuss golliwog and Carol Thatcher took their debate to the other thread. But I accept I brought this hijack down on myself by mentioning CT in my thread title. I really wish there was the option for OPs to amend their thread titles!

StewieGriffinsMom, I can't attempt to phrase my language in a way that won't offend, but the definition of golly with which I started this thread, viz "Negro word for god" was simply a quote from the dictionary definition quoted on Radio 4 at the time of my post. None of them were my own words. Thinking about it, I guess it is offensive (though only you spotted that) but in my mind, I imagined it referred to the Black African slaves taken over to America and their adaptation of the English language.

DG, don't banish us from the thread we were having a really interesting debate about CT's sex life !

Tbh, I can't remember the last time I heard anyone under the age of 60 who hadn't been to public school use the word 'golly' - my friends would think I had lost my marbles if I ever used it in front of them!

The thought of CT having a sex life is somewhat off-putting on its own!

I probably use golly. I am not conscious of it in the same way I am conscious of using much stronger language, but occasionally I feel I must use the milder words of my childhood eg golly and gosh. (Actually I use gosh a lot).

In my teenage years, I was best friends with a girl whose mother would not allow her to even use golly or gosh. How we laughed.

I've only read the first few posts on here so most likely someone else will have said this, but I feel that I have to respond to what you said early on, UQD.

I grew up in the 70s and never had a golliwog, nor were they ever mentioned to me. However the first time I saw one (whilst still at primary school) I knew exactly what it was meant to be - i.e a piss-take of black people. That's what they were invented for, never as 'just a toy'. I get really pissed off with people describing golliwogs in sentimental childhood tones as they've clearly never bothered to find out exactly what golliwogs are about and why they're offensive. Just google 'golliwog' and you can find out in a second.

And now I shall step down from my soapbox.

A side note... the swastika was originally an indian sign for peace. A friend of mine has a lovey Indian rug with loads of them on. I was a bit until she told me. It was a shame it was appropriated by the Nazis.

I don't think CT should have been sacked for the golliwog comment. I actually think she should be punished publicly, by being made to produce and present a programme about the history of the golliwog. Then at least she and the others who can't be arsed to find out what they're talking about might actually learn a thing or two.

Ruby, it's not the 'associations over time' of golliwogs that make them racist. They were invented as symbols of racism. Please check your facts.

However I love your description of 'golly' as 'mild expletive'!

No, they started out as a grotesque character in a storybook. Seriously, google golliwog and find out.

Stewie, before your dh rings Channel 4, can I please quickly say it was radio 4 I heard it on. And, it was not the voice of Radio 4 per se making the comment but a woman phoning in on Any Answers who was quoting the phrase from her dictionary. So perhaps your dh could get straight to the nub of the matter and contact the dictionary's publisher (though I am not sure which dictionary it was, it may have been mentioned - perhaps listen to the repeat of Any Answers and see if it is?)

Thanks!

This is a hard one.I was brought up in the 60s in ireland and we all had them as toys and loved them.There were no black people in our area so there was no connection there and the only person ever called golliwog in that way was a girl who was white with a huge ginger afro who lived near my grand parents It was the hair do that was being referred to

Watched trading places over Christmas and the constant use of the word 'Negro' to describe Eddie Murphy made me physically blanch.

and that was only 25 yrs ago.

StewieGriffin, could you find out what your DH says about the origins of golliwogs? Cheers, darl!