Carol Thatcher dropped by BBC for racist word

[ComeWhineWithMe]

Don't lnow if anyone has already posted (have checked can't see anything) .

I am shocked that she even thought using the term was acceptable .

Silly silly ignorant woman.

uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090203/tuk-carol-dropped-for-golliwog-remark-6323e80.html

Sorry abraid, but several people heard her, crew members and guests of the show, including someone who works for Comic Relief. She was challenged at the time. Several other people complained directly to the BBC. She was asked to apologise, she didn't.

This is about an employee making offence remarks to other employees and those then complaining.

The leak could have come from anywhere. But if I heard that kind of comment, I'd have blown the whistle, sure, why not? I get very angry about this kind of thing, it shows a complete lack of understanding towards others and disregard for their feelings.

The blabbing has certainly had the effect of ensuring that a stupid comment has caused maximum offence. Nice one.

abraid, I think you are missing the point.

Racism in the workplace is not, nor should it be permitted. This is not a media issue of what is broadcast, what is not or green room etiquette. She was an employee in a place of work and, as such, should not use offensive language in front of her colleagues. Had she been a runner or a cameraman she would have been treated exactly the same.

This really highlights the cultural differences in the UK between what's offensive and what's not, which broadly divides between the Daily Mail and the BBC. The Daily Mail launch a campaign about Ross and Brand despite not hearing the remarks in context, despite no complaint by the person directly involved and demand for them to be taken off air as they did not find it funny and were offended.

On the other hand, all kinds of racist abuse is deemed acceptable by them as it's meant 'in jest' and 'no harm done' and if any of we Guardian reading, lentil eating, sandal wearing liberals are offending it is labelled 'pc gone mad'

I think the BBC did exactly the right thing and hopefully it will serve to remind the older generation that things have indeed progressed. Or at least give them something else to whine about.

abraid, according to all the reports Adrian Chiles and Jo Brand DID tell her she was out of order. She refused to apologise. Then other people who were there complained internally. She refused to apologise. THEN someone leaked it to the press. There is absolutely no indication that it was Jo Brand or Adrian Chiles.

I don't see why the green room should operate under Chatham House rules any more than my work canteen does. Carol Thatcher was given significantly more leeway than most professional people would have been. Anyone who'd made that comment at my workplace would probably have been out on their ear whether they apologised or not.

Mind you, I also don't see why you have assumed that out of the dozen or more people there it was Jo Brand who leaked to the press and decided that she's a little creep.

Have just read an article saying Jeremy clarkson has called Gordon Brown a "one eyed scottish idiot" in a live TV show...I am no fan of GB but I think Clarkson is shocking if he has said that - I think it is the one eyed bit that is really cruel. I trust he will be fired by the BBC. If not there is definitely a case of double standards.

Mind you, PMSL at "The Queen is not personally involved in deciding what is sold in the shop." in that Press Association link (as if anyone could rationally imagine HM sitting down leafing through the catalogues of purveyors of tat armed with a highlighter pen...)

Womble - Its the use of the word 'scottish' as a derogatory term that upsets me as well

Well you might not see why it has to operate under Chatham House rules, PortandLemon, but as that's the case, I still say that what was said in there should have remained in there. With, yes, a strong indication to CT that what she'd said was wrong. Which nobody seems to deny.

And in fact most of the comments in the Guardian from its readers tend to say much the same thing. So much for all right-minded lefties sprouting the same line.

It amazes me that some of you people feel it's perfectly ok to have someone refer to a black person as a 'golliwog' in front of work colleagues and expect just a slap on the wrist for it. I'm gobsmacked.

There are now reports that it's not the first time she has called someone a 'golliwog'.

I also don't understand the vitriol spouted against Jo Brand. The BBC have reported that there were journalists present at the time so the leak could well have come from any one of them or the many staff members who overheard the remark (as Mrs Thatcher was apparently getting very carried away with herself and being very loud). The people who heard the comment were questioned and all have denied that the comment was only made in jest.

Yes, calling Gordon Brown Scottish is going way too far!
Actually I've always thought Clarkson a twat and the sooner he gets the boot, the better.

As for the Royals, well Prince Philip is not known for his tact is he? And the Queen Mum used to go around calling foreigners 'huns' and 'wops' (the former indicating that she must have been a Mumsnetter). I note the Daily Mail's front page is defending the golliwog toy, no doubt the BNP will be delighted as it will boost their sales of all things golliwog related.

"The green room is supposed to operate under Chatham House rules: ie, what happens inside it STAYS inside it."

Er, sorry, who decided on that rule? I work in media and PR and frequently accompany guests in the green room of both radio and TV, and no-one has ever suggested that special rules apply to what the guests, presenters or indeed PRs say. I consider myself to be working when in the company of clients whether or not it's office hours or office premises and conduct myself accordingly - if people assume there is some kind of exeption on being a complete arse in the green room then they are ridiculous.

As for who leaked it - well we have to look at the agenda of the leakage, which has been specifically to make the BBC look bad for "firing" CT (not that she has been fired). So I wonder who's benefitting from that?

Does it actually operate under the Chatham House Rule? If so then Chatham House will no doubt be taking disciplinary action and you can rest happy. Or is there just a kind of "what happens in X stays in X" tradition, much like the one where wives and partners aren't told when men screw around on stag trips, dressed up with waffling about Chatham House to make it sound less puerile?

Hear hear theyoungvisitor - brilliant post!

I don't think it operates under Chatham House rules at all - in fact presenters often make remarks on air along the lines of "as we were discussing before the show" or whatever. Part of the purpose of the green room is to prepare for what's going to be said on teh show.

For goodness sake - it's just a glorified waiting room anyway - that's like saying Chatham House rules ought to apply to my dentist's and that it's ok for me to make homophobic remarks because I wasn't actually in the dentist's chair at the time.

No it doesn't Portandlemon, it's just generally understood that the green room is an informal place for relaxing before and after filming and therefore things are 'off the record'. This means that it would be bad form to go to the press if someone announced they'd spent the night with George Clooney NOT that it doesn't conform to employment law or is indeed a place of work.

thank you rhubarb! (PS that should have read a complete exemption on being an arse - typing with DS2 on my lap!)

Exactly fuitstick: employment law

I sent the BBC on this link an email confratulating them on their handling of the incident.

Oh and I lime Top Gear but Clarkson is an arse, it would seem. From the Star o the table at lunch, anyway 'The TSar! Only 209!- er is that ebcause you don't actually emlpoy any Journalists then? just seem to print gossip and rumour)

Peachy - have you turned into cod?

No, just have Bas asleep on my lap LOL (he's getting big to balance now)

Mind, if being COd means a rich dh and an expensive house in a nice area I might be tempted- i'd only have to lose one of the boys after all

Hmmn, I've just read in an update that there may have been more than one use of the term by CT. Which does change what I think about this.

Had she been drinking?

no idea, but her dad certainly enjoyed a tipple, her mother went stark raving bonkers in about 1989 and her brother has screwed up everything he's ever attempted so the genetics are kind of stacked up against CT being competent and able to think clearly, aren't they?

I'm afraid that it's views like Spaceman's that I'm more worried about than the actual utterance bcos anyone with half a brain knows it was wrong. Views that suggest 'what's the big deal?'- sentiments like this and the age old 'it was all in jest' are insensitive and perpetuate bigotry.

There have been numerous golliwog threads on MN, so let's not imagine that CT being dropped has spawned many postings on the subject.

CT was NOT talking about golliwogs as lovable creatures. She called a black tennis player a golliwog, then said a half-golliwog. Now in which fucking lifetime is that funny ha ha?

Having grown up being called golliwog and worse you're so right... I should "grow a backbone". You know the last time I took someone to task about calling me names such as that I was rounded on by my white friends and told that I was being mean to the poor old racist twat!

Please enlighten me as to when it is acceptable to call people racist names? Or any discriminatory name? I'm not an idealist but don't you think that with all that we know and all that we see the world over people might start to lose their... "oh it's PC gone mad" cries and actually think..."shit! I'm glad that I don't have to live with that kind of drip drip abuse"?

It's bad enough when a friend calls to tell you that her dd has been told that the other children in the class won't be playing with her because she is brown like pooh! And to come onto MN...oh wait! I remember the golliwog threads. It's NOT racist when used in that context. It's a fucking cuddly toy!

Must remember that I have no right to feel offended and that should I ever be privvy to such a "private" conversation at no time must I ever mention my hurt!