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Carol Thatcher dropped by BBC for racist word

195 replies

ComeWhineWithMe · 03/02/2009 18:14

Don't lnow if anyone has already posted (have checked can't see anything) .

I am shocked that she even thought using the term was acceptable .

Silly silly ignorant woman.

uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090203/tuk-carol-dropped-for-golliwog-remark-6323e80.html

OP posts:
unavailable · 04/02/2009 11:24

It wasnt Andy Murray she was referring to it was an unnamed black player - according to bbc.

mm22bys · 04/02/2009 11:31

Well, she had the "conversation" last Thursday, and it as supposedly about a (black, according again to the BBC) male player recently eliminated in the Australian Open. Should be fairly easy to narrow down....

Beside the point though, really...

MamaHobgoblin · 05/02/2009 09:19

Not a private conversation, apparently - it was a conversation with or well within the hearing of 12 other BBC employees. As such, it was the workplace, and anyone who was offended by her language was well within their rights to report it. But yes, it speaks volumes about her general attitudes that she refuses to acknowledge that she's offended, and that she thought it was an acceptable term to use about a human being in the first place.

I heard a rather strident BBC spokesperson on R4 this morning defending her sacking and she said that it wasn't Andy Murray CT was refering to, it was a black tennis player - Jo-Wilfried Tsonga, apparently (am sports atheist, have no idea who he is!). I think it should be unacceptable whoever she was refering to, but it does seem even worse now it transpires it was a black player she was talking about.

Rhubarb · 05/02/2009 09:29

It was about a female black tennis player. She described her as a gollywog in front of Adrian Chiles, Jo Brand and lots of other people in the dressing rooms. Chiles was said to be very shocked. One of those who heard her made the complaint.

The BBC hoped that it would blow over if she made an apology, but she refused. Her agent said that she was innocently comparing the player to the gollywogs on jam jars. Carol herself says that she doesn't know what all the fuss is about.

Which proves her arrogance, in thinking she can say what she likes, and her stupidity in not knowing how offensive that is.

Ross and co did actually apologise, lots of times. And he was suspended and Brand dropped from the BBC. So not really fair to make comparisons with that case. Although fwiw, I thought the amount of people who defended him at the time were disgusting. I don't care what Manuel's granddaughter does, he wasn't aiming those comments at her, he was aiming them at an old man. Georgina is quite capable I'm sure, of defending herself, but to talk to an old man in that way about his granddaughter is disgusting and I think he should have been punished more severely.

happywomble · 05/02/2009 10:30

Carol Thatcher should of course not have made her comment.

However if she came out with something people found offensive why didn't Jo Brand or whoever say so to Carol's face there and then. I think they were wet and two faced to take the matter to the BBC controller.

It was not on air so it is none of the BBC controller's business.

I'm sure all of us from time to time say things and then think immediately "oh that was a stupid thing to say", not racist stuff but something that is not that kind about another person, but as we are not famous no one repeats it and it is quickly forgotten.

I used to love my gollywog as a child and never considered any link to a person..I though of it as a loveable teddy, in the way children nowadays like Iggle Piggle.

Peachy · 05/02/2009 10:31

No HW, if you make comments like this at work you are going to get in serious trouble.

Quite rightly IMO.

I'd like to think I'd challenge it to their face though

happywomble · 05/02/2009 10:56

So Peachy do think its right that Jonathan Ross is back on air with a vast salary..he was far more offensive as he was actually on air. I don't care if he apologised or not. The damage was already done.

Peachy · 05/02/2009 11:00

The difference is the apology imo.

Carol Thatcher actively refused to apologise at least at first.

Rhubarb · 05/02/2009 11:13

hw, all Thatcher had to do was apologise. It's ok saying you'd challenge them to their face, but I can imagine Carol Thatcher being a complete toff who would rubbish anyone's concerns and tell them not to be so stupid. Perhaps they did challenge her at the time, after all Chiles has reported to have said he was very shocked.

Whilst Ross was extremely offensive, his was not a racial issue which is the seriousness here. Poking fun of someone or stereotyping them because of their race is simply not on. If you remember, black people were referred to as gollywogs as an extreme insult. It was intended to belittle and humiliate them which is why no-one would ever say that now.

And yes, the BBC producer of Radio 2 was sacked, Ross was suspended, Brand was dropped from any Beeb stuff and this was despite them both apologising profusely. They know what they did was utterly wrong. Thatcher has no such comprehension and tbh, she does so little that could be called journalism that I doubt her sacking will create many ripples. It was only a matter of time I feel.

Peachy · 05/02/2009 11:19

Io don't think racism is more severe than other sorts of dicrimination: it's all bad.

But there is and should be a certain amount of reward and kudos for the ability to apologise and more so to learn from a mistake.

Thatcher clearly had no intention if she refused to say sorry.

Rhubarb · 05/02/2009 11:30

Ah but she was making a derogatory remark specifically aimed at the tennis player's colour and race.
Not only that, but she used a term that is now widely acceptable to be an unacceptable racist term. Here is how the golliwog started off and how it became identified with racism.

happywomble · 05/02/2009 11:30

Rhubarb I am no particular fan of Carol Thatcher I don't even watch the programme in question. I just think it is wrong that a private conversation is being dragged into the spotlight. If Carol caused offence in a private conversation she should apologise to those present at the time not the whole BBC.

daftpunk · 05/02/2009 11:32

agree happywomble.

daftpunk · 05/02/2009 11:34

rhubarb...the ross/brand thing was put out on radio..the public heard it.

Rhubarb · 05/02/2009 11:35

She hasn't apologise to those in question. And it depends on what you call a 'private' conversation. There were quite a few people around at the time, it was not a one-to-one conversation, she didn't seem to mind who heard her.

I find her immensely arrogant and am not in the least bit surprised that she neither finds the term offensive or is willing to apologise.

As I've already said, the BBC didn't just sack her, they asked her to apologise, that's all. Only when she refused and the story got out did they feel they had to take drastic action.

Peachy · 05/02/2009 11:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Rhubarb · 05/02/2009 11:38

I am aware of that daftpunk. I've listened to it, I found it shocking and disgusting. I think the action the BBC took was appropriate, to sack the producer who deemed it suitable to be aired, to demand public apologies from all involved, to suspend Ross and sack Brand. I do think he should have had a pay cut too and possibly flogged in public, but you can't have it all.

Plus Ross and Brand did apologise practically everywhere they could, they sent flowers to those personally involved and wrote letters of apology.

Carol would never do any such thing.

Peachy · 05/02/2009 11:40

Rhuibs wasnt there something on the news last week suggesting Ross was taking a 4million pay cut or somesuch?

Rhubarb · 05/02/2009 11:41

Sorry Peaches!
I do actually think that racism is worse when you consider the atrocious ways in which they were treated. The Aboriginees were more or less ethically cleansed in Australia - black people were sold as slaves, they weren't even seen as human beings but some sub-species.

So in that context, I would say yes, racism is worse.

Rhubarb · 05/02/2009 11:41

Really? How about the public flogging? Was that mentioned at all?

Peachy · 05/02/2009 11:44

No, but C4 are looking to show it as a info programme next summer

I don't know Rhub, look at the treatment of the disabled through th ages- locked up in hospitals, sterilised, exterminated by Hitler- seems to many parallels of horror to me. OTOH I spend my days immersed in that so I just see BIGOTRY in flashing lights and target that, rather than worrying about the reason or history.

daftpunk · 05/02/2009 11:45

i don't know carol thatcher personally, and i wasn't present when the conversation took place, however i think it's PC gone mad yet again, and if i was the controller of the bbc i'd sack the spineless grass who complained about her, who probably have their own agenda anyway,...ie; after her job.

Peachy · 05/02/2009 11:47

Gosh really DP? You'd sack someone for whistle blowing?

And how long would you last in that job..... 2 minutes, maybe three?

Spaceman · 05/02/2009 11:48

"Which proves her arrogance, in thinking she can say what she likes, and her stupidity in not knowing how offensive that is."

Can we really NOT say what we like anymore? Do we not have freedom of speech in this country?

It was not supposed to be viscious
She didn't intend it to be a public comment - it wasn't broadcast
IMHO She is rather batty and a bit out of touch, but wouldn't have intended it to be racist
People are so hysterical over racism today
Surely it's how people are behaving to one another that really matters
If CT was in a room with the tennis player (or whoever the subject is) and refused to speak to her because whe was black then I would be LIVID. But this just isn't the case.

There are FAR MORE offensive things going on in this country every day that we should get upset about than this. Making an example of CT just emphasises how on one hand we are told we have free throught and speech in this country and then on the other we can be damned for an innocent comment taken right out of context.

Rhubarb · 05/02/2009 11:49

Yes, the treatment of pretty much everyone by the Nazis was just horrendous - I wonder how people would have felt if she had described a Jewish person as a Holocaust victim?

I suppose black people do have more history of bigotry and hate - having entire countries taken off them etc. If you look into it deep enough you'll find that most people could claim bigotry at some point, for being ginger-haired, or young, or old, or tall, or small etc etc. But racism has been so prevalent for such a long time.

I only discovered Carol did a slot for the One Show a few weeks ago, I was horrified to see her on the TV. Am now relieved I don't have to see her face again.

Or is that bigoted of me?