Having >2 children is bad for the environment says gov adviser

[EldonAve]

Two children should be limit, says green guru

Would you limit your family to save the earth?

I saw a great quote in the comments "As someone once said, "those that advocate abortion are already living". If you feel you must take a life to save the world, please take only your own."

I think the 'bad for the environment' thing is massively over-stated and simplistic, though. There are so many variables involved.

But even if I did think it was proven, which I don't, I still don't think there's anything more to be done about it than widely available contraceptives and good education. Anything further is completely antithetical to basic freedoms, really.

Well (after previous debates) I think the definition given was always a simplistic one so people couldnt argue it- ie they used more resources and needed more houses.

So I suppose yes in that context.

But like you say Katy, so many variables and so many lives.

I mean its good for society that my sn 2 have 2 brothers to help at least support the care they receive isn't it.

And with fertility rates falling etc etc etc.

So if you apre it right down to variables then I suppose so but life is so much richer than that.

"shifting money from curing illness to increasing contraception and abortion"

What a load of sensationalist crap. Why not go one step further and introdue enforced sterilisation. That way no babies will be born and with noone to look after the aging population they won't continue to age much longer and we can just rid the world of people. Actually that may help the environmental problem.

Um I think the environmental problems require a bit more thought and expertise than enouraging abortion and abandoning cures for cancer.

I'm in favour of less laws generally not more so I'm not exactly happy about the idea of enforcing a limit on births. The trouble is that there isn't a choice about limiting births. Only a choice about the method.

If we let the population of the world increase then there must come a point where there is no way to grow enough food for everyone. If people are thinking "but we will find better ways to grow food in smaller places" then yes we will, but if you then double the population again and again eventually it becomes a physical impossibility.

So what happens if we don't limit births? well no problem. Other people (less important people) will just have to die to make room.

We won't have to murder them at first, just stop helping them and seal our borders. Stand back and let the third world die through famine, disease and war and then we'll have room to expand.

That works for a while and lets us carry on without concerning ourselves about the future, but it's not what I'd call ideal.

Not to mention that it might be some other country deciding that they could make use of the space we are using.

Btw it's not 'for the planet' it's for us.

Blimey. And I thought I had a pessimistic view of human nature.

I'm expecting no3 BUT I know so many childless couples (by choice) that I think we even them out

"shifting money from curing illness to increasing contraception and abortion"

Incresing Abortion!!

Putting less money into curing illnesses x10

Heartless fuckers.

As usual a man manages to blame the state of the world on women and their evil ways.

This is less about the environment and the ever increasingly creep way New Labour wants to control every aspect of our private life.

Historically it is unnatural to live past the age of 40 but we never hear of suggestions to impose compulsory suicides to help the planet.

A simple solution, make it illegal (except in exceptional circumstances i.e. rape births) to get pregnant without a licence thus curbing birth rates

Onager, if you haven't seen it already, you should really watch Doomsday!

I think I am making a very positive contribution to society by having five children who are in the process of becoming very well educated. I expect they will pull their weight as adults.

If we had on 1 or 2 children, we'd undoubtably squander our cash of material things, including loads of airline fuel. As it is, everything we have goes into school fees and we end up with an otherwise very modest lifestyle.

laumiere, Thanks, I will take a look.

"shifting money from curing illness to increasing contraception and abortion"

Yes this is one of the other ways. There are a lot of ways to control the population and they are all much nastier than expecting people to accept a limit of two.

Surely responsible people with larger families are actual saving money as they probably tend to reuse and shop more economically?

Colonelcupcake "A simple solution, make it illegal (except in exceptional circumstances i.e. rape births) to get pregnant without a licence thus curbing birth rates "

The original article in my newspaper, that talked about the need to restrict birth rates was right next to an article about a woman who got pregnant twice whilst on the pill, and both times she had twins!

I have 5 but my sister has none so I can have her quota! It is not as simple as number of kids IMO as we are a very unmaterialistic family, rarely go abroad, run one car, smallish house etc etc. Some friends with 1 or 2 kids use loads more stuff than use, have several cars, 3 foreign holidays a year etc etc.

Good point jellybeans. We are soon to be 3 child family. However, like you one car, last time we went abroad was our honeymoon and haen't been on hols (which would be camping) since I was pg with dc1. House is 3 bed terrace, we put jumpers on rather than heating.
Our child free by choice friends, on the other hand, go on holidays abroad a couple of times a year, have a car each and when we go to their houses I end up peeling off layers. This isn't to say they are all like it but as a rule of thumb.
I do however come from a frugal family. One brother's GF used to complain about the cold at my folks' but has since started wearing chunky jumpers

not that i wish to come over al 'holier than thou'

I am an arch eco worrier who has 2 and beginning to want a third but my conscience is troubling me...