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Having >2 children is bad for the environment says gov adviser

45 replies

EldonAve · 01/02/2009 09:20

Two children should be limit, says green guru

Would you limit your family to save the earth?

I saw a great quote in the comments "As someone once said, "those that advocate abortion are already living". If you feel you must take a life to save the world, please take only your own."

OP posts:
LoveMyLapTop · 01/02/2009 09:24

Just heard Jonathan Porrit on radio 5 talking about this, wondered how long it would take to get on here
CAn understand where they are coming from, the planet is not coping with the population we have now, but does sound ver y sinister

CornBreadQueen · 01/02/2009 09:26

that's interesting actually, because i saw an article saying that the japanese govt. is giving people time off during the week so that they could go home and procreate to help bring their birth rate up.

LoveMyLapTop · 01/02/2009 09:28

will they have offset birth rates
ie japan can have 3, if the uk onlly have 1? (joke)

CornBreadQueen · 01/02/2009 09:29

lol, that's exactly what i was thinking!

maretta · 01/02/2009 09:30

Think this is tosh. Why are they saying two children, why not one or none.

Birth rate can be controlled in a society with access to contraception and health care, with people still free to have 12 children if they so desire.

World population is too high but a sudden decrease in population would have very bad consequences.

If they're going to get opinionated about it they could also mention when you breed. If we all bred at 16, the population would grow much quicker than if we all waited to 40.

I just think the whole thing is excessively simplistic.

maretta · 01/02/2009 09:32

Also a bit about the abortion comment.

Wonderstuff · 01/02/2009 09:35

The thing is that educating women = lower birth rates. The Chinese experiment was a disaster because forcing people into limiting families is very difficult. In India they encouraged smaller families and it worked best in regions where women had active involvement in politics.

Also interesting to note that people have been talking about the planet reaching its capacity for humans for a long time..

Wonderstuff · 01/02/2009 09:38

Actually the biggest problem we have in the UK is not looking after children, but looking after the ageing population, the lower the birth rates the more difficult it will become. I think that in the future we will need to encourage immigration from countries with more young people

CornBreadQueen · 01/02/2009 09:45

that's a really good point wonderstuff

i'm not going to limit my family to save the earth. i'll definitely teach my kids to do their part in protecting the environment but limiting the amount of children people have is just ridiculous.

don't you wonder... the more educated people will be reading this article and thinking "hmm yeah i want to help save the earth, only 2 kids for me" then you've got the ones who don't even read a newspaper and go on having 40 kids.

littleducks · 01/02/2009 09:50

i think id quite like to live in japan.......

sarah293 · 01/02/2009 09:51

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Wonderstuff · 01/02/2009 09:52

I think there is a bit of that CBQ I think some people plan families and others just have them happen.. We have some very large complex families at my school..

DaisyMooSteiner · 01/02/2009 09:54

Do I get to give two of mine back then?

hoppybird · 01/02/2009 09:54

CornBreadQueen - there's a film called Idiocracy which explores these issues to some degree.

Wonderstuff · 01/02/2009 09:55

It is true Riven, but its an age old debate, people have been saying that for at least a hundred years, but actually in most places the standard of living has improved. I think mass urbanisation in places like Sao Paulo or Mumbai is a huge problem.

ilovegreenbeans · 01/02/2009 14:00

DH and I just came across this article...
I think this is horrible coming from the guy in charge of the "Sustainable Development Commission"- almost has evil overtones to me!

It's true- the problem isn't only with population, but with mass consumption and a lack of stewardship over the earth.

Did anyone see the article about the "Green GP" who refuses to help women have large families?

onager · 01/02/2009 14:21

Of course we have to limit the population. anyone who has packed a suitcase or put the shopping away knows there is a limit to how much you can put in.

It's no use saying we will be careful and use less resources. If we are at the limit the planet can take now (for example) then we could perhaps halve the resources we use. But then if we double the population we are back where we started. What if we have 8 times the population? 42 times? Are there really people who think there is NO upper limit?

To bring it closer to home consider this. When there is no more room to build houses in the UK the government will have to force you to take people into yours. Eventually a family living in each room that you have now if we accept the "no need to stop expanding" point of view.

sarah293 · 01/02/2009 14:39

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BitOfFun · 01/02/2009 14:39

people do die you know, onager

sarah293 · 01/02/2009 14:53

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onager · 01/02/2009 15:03

BitOfFun.

Riven, I'm sure I read the same story though I can't recall the title.

You're right of course about people wanting kids to keep them in their old age. We have politicians saying now that we need a lot more young people (workers) to fund pensions, which is the same principle.
Of course that means everyone is motivated to make matters worse.

If we leave it up to individuals then as someone said I think only the very concerned and thoughtful will abstain. Only those who don't care or don't see the problem would breed. There's a SF book about the consequences of that too

Poisoning ourselves so that couples cannot conceive may help save the day, but it is sad. I'd sooner we went for the 2 births per couple method. Anyway we have doctors trying to increase fertility. We can hardly blame someone for wanting to conceive and doctors for helping them, but it's not helping.

We need more gay people!

Wonderstuff · 01/02/2009 16:50

'If we leave it up to individuals then as someone said I think only the very concerned and thoughtful will abstain. Only those who don't care or don't see the problem would breed.'
Not true, until the latest round of EU membership which led to so much East European immigration the UK birth rate was well below 2, had been for many years. Educated women have children much later and some of them chose to not have children at all. The reason our population was stable rather than falling was due to improved healthcare extending life expectancy. I feel that really we are going to have to work for longer and retire in our late 60's or even 70's

Improving womens access to healthcare and education really is the key to all this. Sadly that is a long term dn difficult thing to do, I feel our politicians have other priorities

KayHarker · 01/02/2009 19:25

'If we leave it up to individuals' is a terrifying statement, though, especially considering what occurs in China to enforce the one child policy.

Call me ineffective, but I'm really fond of freedom, and don't favour the stirrings of totalitarian control, however much people think the 'planet' might benefit.

Wonderstuff · 01/02/2009 20:11

couldn't agree more kay

PeachyBAHonsPRSCertOnRequest · 01/02/2009 20:15

Well i'd never ever agree with banning larger famillies, that would be terribly cruel and have massive repercussions we all know that

But yes its probably abd for the environment

But you can limit the effects to some extent at least and whilst we do all have to take action we also need to live our lives as well; for me that made having a bigger family as it was a desperate want of mine.

I do what I can to baalnce it, I know that's not enough but it's what I can do.

Riven speaks sense here, and the somment about aging population is salient.