I think it's perfectly acceptable for Charles and Harry to call brown-skinned people 'Sooty' and 'Paki'...

[MrsGrouchoMarxMerryHenry]

...so long as we can all refer to them by the endearing little nickname I've thought up for them: 'moronic fuckwit'!

See here

Apparently the two Asian men in question were quite happy to have the Princes refer to them by the above names. Yeah, right. I bet they were delighted. I can just picture the scene:

Charles: I say, old boy, you're looking rather sooty these days. Mind if I call you that as my fond little nickname?
Kolin Dhillon: Of course, my clever little arsehole. You know, you're just like your adorable father. Actually, it's been a lifetime ambition of mine to have the future King use a racist term of abuse as my hilariously chummy nickname. Nothing would give me greater pleasure. More tea?

cory, the President in the US combines the tasks of Prime Minister and President (in Ireland or France)

Agree, the PM should not be head of state.

They should be suspended without pay with immediate affect.

That's what would happen to any other employee who makes racist comments.

Yes, sorry, I missed your Irish reference (too busy thinking about Bush . That would be a preferable system. A head of state separate from the elected prime minister.

Mrs Groucho - I'm not sure that's fair - don't you need something more descriptive? How about "big eared moronic little fuckwit"? Don't see how anyone can be offended by that - it's only words, after all. It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

I met the DofE once, he mumbled at a friend and I for about 2 minutes- neither of us understood a word.

So it's OK for my DH to be called "convict", but not to have a nickname for someone they have been called for 30+ years, and don't themselves find offensive?

mm22bys, I don't think anyone said it was ok did they? Certainly not for your dh's boss to use it - I have an Australian friend and we use joking derogatory terms to each other but I would never use them to some one I worked with, so no, I don't think it's ok.

There is always the argument that Royalty brings tourism to Britain (i.e. London) therefore we should keep them.

Could you imagine how many more tourists there would be if all those large houses were open to the public?

Guillotine? Shall I bring the knitting?

That's ok, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't OK to use a term based on someone's skin colour, but was OK to use a term stereotyping someone's (part of) country background!

Anyway, it's such an unoriginal, over-used term!

Brilliant op!

I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said. There was an interesting article in the guardian review on saturday, I didn't fully agree with the points but some interesting questions were raised about the monarchy and nationalism. They are really just there to bring in the tourists aren't they?

www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/jan/10/andrew-ohagan-george-orwell-memoriallecture

Have not read the whole thread. But I find the younger generation of royals vastly depressing. They seem happy to lap up all the privileges with little sense of duty or responsibility and then complain when their louche antics are photgraphed.

I admire the Queen but quite frankly when she dies, the Monarchy dies as far as I'm concerned.

MrsSeanBean, I'm always intrigued when people say they admire the queen - just out of interest, what do you admire her for?

IMHO she's a miserable old bitch, who never smiles, has raised four awful and totally dysfunctional children, she thinks she's something special when she isn't and she totally looks down her noses at the likes of us. Can't stand the woman. Couldn't stand her drunken racist old mother either.

All this crap about not turning your back on her and how do address her, etc? I would love to meet her just so I could not curtsy, call her Liz or Mrs Windsor and then turn my back and walk away! Why should I curtsy to her? She's not superior to me in any way!

But, as I say, that's just my opinion!

Hi sponge, yes I know what you mean She's just human and the deference thing is very silly. I hope you get your chance!

But I think for a lady over 80 still (after all these years, and at her age) to be working and obviously doing things she wouldn't exactly count as 'fun' - day in, day out - in the line of what she sees as her 'duty' is admirable.

I know she has an easy life and has probably never lifted a finger to do anything for herself. But it must be very boring and she does 'keep turning up' to do the unveilings etc. Also to the best of my knowledge she has never been involved in any scandal herself, and for someone who has been in the public eye for so long that's an achievement imo.

So in that respect I feel she earns her keep.

well, the queen has devoted her life to her job, and by and large has done the job extremely well.

Agree about her private life, but if she was just someone who had been voted or appointed to the role, we would probably just look at her performance in the job.

I once saw some film of her coming back from a foreign tour when PC was about 2, being met by her mother and her little son, and she greeted her mother FIRST and very warmly. PC got a pat on the head, iirc. So yes, she hasnt done a brilliant job there. But I still admire how well she has done the head of state job.

I dont think I could bring myself to curtsey either!

My mother's off to see Prince Charles's people tomorrow (for work) - I've suggested she drops 'sooty' into the conversation just to see them jump.

I met him once at a work do - did not curtsey but no-one batted an eyelid, probably because I was 8.5 months pregnant at the time. I was surprised to find that he's actually quite charming in person. But my skin isn't brown - maybe I'd have had a different reaction if it was.

Oh yes only a fool would curtsy at anyone (cough wink etc)

I think Charles and Harry's recent gaffes are indicative of a kind of deeply paternalistic, patronising, arrogant, hangover of empire attitude to difference, especially racial difference, really. The basis of their position is that the white upper classes are superior to everyone else. "Not one of us, what, but a jolly good sort, albeit of a lesser kind, our dear Sooty/little paki friend Ahmed." The context seems to be that it's rather amusing that people of colour should be within their midst at all and therefore the situation is worthy of a jolly word spoken in jest, at which the charming little different fellow will of course not take offence because it's all about friendliness and relating to the dear brown chap so far from home. Not racism at all, what a shocking thought. Oh dear me no.

Appalling.

"by and large has done the job extremely well"

But what is her job? It is to turn up to events, shake hands, smile (nope, she pretty much fails on that one every time!) and cut ribbons. It's not exactly brain surgery is it? She comes from a generation that tended to behave themselves far better anyway - and where women knew their place by and large. Anyway, her husband has had enough affairs to make up for the both of them!

I imagine it is to turn up at endless state dinners, sitting there talking to heads of states and politicians, trying to keep channels of communication open. I think it does make a difference. But I expect Charles will make a mess of that too.

Why is it that all the other countries with Royals (Spain, Sweden,The Netherlands etc) never seem to have this trouble?

I doubt it's just the Royal family who have attitudes like this. I think a lot of the upper echelons of society don't 'get' racism and just think it is political correctness gone mad.

Considering Prince Charles fancies himself as a bit of an intellectual and 'defender of all faiths', its just laughable really.

I doubt the Queen can see what all the fuss is about either. I shouldn't think any of the Royal family are the remotest bit interested or concerned about their lack of intellect or understanding.