In the same vein as the Julia Frogspawn thread, let us all sympathise with the poor north London atheists who had to attend church for 6 months to get their child into a 'desirable' school, and had to miss out on weekends at their retreat in the coun...

[frogs]

Here

Really, my heart bleeds. Do these people not realise how they are going to make themselves sound?

"for I am a dyed-in-the-wool atheist. But being Jewish is a great source of pride and pleasure to me

Is it me or does this statement make NO sense at all ?

Can you be a Jewish Athiest ?!

I think what she meant to say was "I am a total hypocrit and sent my DCs to the lovely Jewish school instead of the local shit hole school". But somehow it came out differently.

Forgive if I'm wrong, but I always thought that Judaism was a cultural thing, not just a religion. I.e you can be Jewish by race? That not withstanding, the whole hypocritical business of attending a place of worship just to get your kids into a school p**ses me right off. (Though I can understand the reason people do this.)

This is the bit that really got me (possibly cos I know the school concerned, and it's the one that people try to get their kids into to avoid the once my dc attend):

St Michael's is an oversubscribed primary and operates a points system. Everyone I spoke to stressed they had not been forced to lie about their beliefs, but to get maximum points parents need to worship regularly at the parish church. Inevitably, to get their children a place, some godless liberals profess a faith they don't have. According to Dolin (who requested a pseudonym for this article), at least half are non-believers. "It comes out in the pub, if not the playground," she says.

Rob Sanders, a commercials director whose daughter attends St Michael's, says: "I have never pretended to be a believing Christian, and at the time I was upset that I had to go to church. We have a weekend country retreat, and it meant we couldn't go there for six months. But it's an absolutely brilliant local school and from the moment I first saw it, I decided that I would do whatever it took to get my daughter a place there."

There are so many contradictions in there that I don't even know where to start.

Hmm. I wonder what the schools think about being lied to? They do know these parents names now, I wonder how long their children will stay at the schools and how the other parents feel that they have lied their way in.

But surely part of being culturally, ethnically Jewish and proud is to follow the religion around which the whole shebang is based ? Surely that is the lynchpin of actually being 'Jewish' ? Unless she means being of Jewish descent? Who knows, either way she is unspeakably ridiculous.

I guess he could sell the huge country house with ponies weekend retreat and pay for private school? Or is that just the green-eyed monster in me emerging?

My thoughts of the Jewish faith are that they support every member, from visiting people in hospital to take them kosher food to teaching the children their heritage. I have visited a synagogue (sp?) and they are welcoming people. It would be wrong IMO to build up a friendship with anyone, not just jewish, just to get your child into a school. I can see the jewish society shunning them.

Jewish (afaik) is an ethnicity as well as a religion, so you can be a Jewish athiest can't you?

But that article...

What a crock.

All that stuff about wanting your children to have a religious framework to get more insight on their culture - fine, rings very true, my mum wanted that for me. Which is why I went to Sunday School. Total red herring. It's about 'good schools' versus the rest - and people who will lie and cheat to get their children into them. Very Christian.

That was my thought too, Portofino. And I'm not remotely jealous, I like my kids school.

But if I had been on the fiddle to get a school place, by whatever means, I would have more sense than to witter about it to a journo on the hunt for copy. Particularly when it clearly makes you look like a snobby hypocrite, whichever way you dress it up.

Ha ha ha!

Poor lambs. The things we have to do eh to get a 'decent'education. How does the hopolloi manage.

the head teachers won't know any of the names of the parents as most of them used pseudonym. It all a pile of rubbish, the whole article can be translated into one sentence, i wanted my child to go to the best school so i pretended to believe in something i don't.

Its a shame for those who do have a real faith who now can't get their children into the school because some hypocrite has decided 'I would do whatever it took to get my daughter a place there'.

The schools don't appear to be being lied to, though. It sounds as though the question is "have you attended church regularly for the last six months?" and the answer is yes.

Anyway, six months? Hah. You need years of weekly church attendance round here.

It doesn't teach the children good morals. It teaches them they can get their own way if they find the loop hole or lie.

Here (in Belgium) you can put your child in any school of your choosing. Private schools don't really exist (apart from the European ones). Even the Royal family's kids go to a state school.

If the school is popular, you need to camp out for days in advance of the application date. I know someone who did this to get their 2.5 year a kindergarten place .

I'm not sure this would be the answer, but the idea of some of these snobs eager parents in the article having to rough it a bit makes me

i agree with Niecie

The schools all know this about the parents though presumably? Aren't they saying - right, we've got a shit hot school here, you can only come if you go to church, so line up people, prove it, and let's see if we can convert a couple of you as a trade off for your child's education.

So they do.

They're not hypocrites as such are they? They're playing the game so their children can go to the school they want them to.

How if the faith schools said - we're open to everyone regardless of faith, but you should know whilst your children are here we will try to work our magic on them. Names on a list, or street or whatever.

I don't quite understand why you are all so down on the people in the article? They're doing their best aren't they? Isn't it better that they say 'yeah, I'm an atheist, the school is good, and probably won't do any harm.' Aren't they being honest?

See, I didn't think the article was asking for our sympathy tbh.

if Mum is from Israel and Gran is Jewisj isn't Mum? I thought it passed down the female line, nationality of Dad irrelevant.

I suppose could e Mum's paternal gran...

ahahahaha. how strange. but i have been known to describe myself as a jewish atheist. at my son's local community state school (in hackney, same borough as simon marks).

Yes, Mum would be Jewish, so would children. du Sautoy a well-known atheist - so that must be the point of talking about his children, I suppose?

I'm still not clear on why everyone is so down on the people in the article.

i understand why everyone hates the guy with the country retreat. But not everyone else.

are you still moving hc? .

Yes being Jewish passes down the maternal line.
My grandmother was Jewish and therefore I am able to call myself Jewish if I so wish!

I don't hate them, I'm just entertained by the convoluted arguments about 'cultural identity' and 'tradition of intellectual enquiry', yadda yadda, all of which can be approximately translated as: 'we wanted our kids to go to a school full of people exactly like ourselves'.