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Is the family to blame in this story?

80 replies

MrsMerryHenry · 03/01/2009 15:05

Read this.

I'm wondering how it is that the man could have had family alive who apparently did little or nothing to help him.

OP posts:
2shoes · 04/01/2009 19:32

the story is not made up, it happend in my town. bloody disgusting way for the paramedics to behave. I have had to call on their services and had only help and support form the local paramedis/ambulance people. these 2 have let the side down badly.
from what I read in the local paper, the man was well known in his area and went to the pub for luch weekley and stuff like that,.

KerryMumbles · 04/01/2009 19:35

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KerryMumbles · 04/01/2009 19:35

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FairLadyRantALot · 04/01/2009 19:45

2shoes....well, I was just hoping that it was one of those news stories that was being completely miscontrued (sp?)....shame it isn't.
Poor man...really feel so sorry for him....

resolutions · 04/01/2009 19:52

poor man and poor relatives,a sudden death is awful enough without the agony of wondering if he could have been saved

MrsMerryHenry · 05/01/2009 00:10

Resolutions, you said 'what's the point of asking why his family didn't help?'

The point of asking that is to understand the situation better.

Does that answer your question?

I spoke yesterday to one of the people I mentioned earlier, who's living in a filthy mess. He'd said once (a few months ago when I offered) that he'd like help, then yesterday when I tried to make a plan with him, he refused and said he could do it himself. Which he won't.

Thing is, his life is a complete mess (no friends, no self-esteem, likely suffering from depression) and while I appreciate the importance of allowing people dignity in these circumstances, I don't agree that he should be left to carry on life in this way. What I'd like to do is to work out a way to support him and help him to slowly develop a rich and fulfilling life where he is emotionally and physically healthy, where he is able to engage with the world, and where he enjoys being himself.

So to whoever it was that asks my why the above story interests me, I hope that answers your question, too.

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FairLadyRantALot · 05/01/2009 00:29

hm...if that person is depressed than it will be difficult, because depression can be a rather vicious cycle, imo/ime...i.e. well, you feel low, you let things go, you feel worse/you let things more go...and you simply haven't got the drive to get out of that sorry mess, because you feel that low, all is pointless....doesn't mean you don't realise that if everything wasn't a mess you feel better....it's just to find that energy and drive....well...it can be reallly difficult....

but the guy in the article, well, he didn't seem to suffer from depression, etc....he just couldn't physically do it and chose against help...possibly due to pride issues...iykwim...

MrsMerryHenry · 05/01/2009 00:36

Yes, I'm pretty well-versed in the symptoms of depression and I'd really like to get this chap to the doctor. If he is diagnosed with it, a dose of anti-depressants should help to elevate his mood and make him more amenable to changing things in his life. (I say this, by the way, as someone who's firmly on the side of using drugs as a last resort for anything)

I haven't even tried to raise the issue of the GP, not sure how to approach that. With enormous sensitivity, for one thing.

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FairLadyRantALot · 05/01/2009 00:42

difficult one mrsmerryhenry....

andaSOLOnewyear · 05/01/2009 00:48

They would offer me a noose then right now! I'm not smirking either...I can't get my head around sorting it out and when I heard this story on the news, I thought to myself 'I'd be in trouble then...'
Some people don't think why things occur, they just see what's in front of their nose. Sad isn't it?

sandcastles · 05/01/2009 03:22

MrsMerryHenry, you are wondering how people end up like this.. I assume you living in clutter?

Well when I was pg with dd2 I had carpal tunnel syndrome in both my wrists.

I had it quite bad, as in that I couldn't hold fruit & veg to cut them up, as soon as I lay down in bed [on back, sides] my hands went numb, I couldn'd hold dd1 [5] hand as I couldn't feel it. I wouldn't hold a hot cup of tea as I was scared I'd drop it & spill it. If it wasn't numbness it was very painful.

My grip was shot, because everytime my wrists/fingers were not straight they either went numb, or I lost feeling completely. I stopped driving as eventually I couldn't feel the gear stick after 10 minutes. All I could do comfortably was wash up, the heat from the water took the pain away, but the water was v v hot.

So I can see how crippling arthritus can prevent a person clearing up their house. My house would be a tip if I didn't have dh & dd to help tidy. Don't get me wrong, I could pick things up, but after a few minutes the feeling was gone. So yes, I can totally understand!

lovelysongbirdie · 05/01/2009 09:17

poor bloke. rest in peace

i can't believe they did this.
its not his fault he was too poorly to clean nd had no one to help.

littleducks · 05/01/2009 09:30

i dont think i would be paying the house clearance company if the took pics and displayed them online whatever the story in the news is

resolutions · 05/01/2009 09:43

mrs mh
my point is
you don't have enough info to discuss why his family didn't/couldn't help him
he may have been hoarding items due to ocd
i think is is unkind to his family and in bad taste to question a family who could be grieving in distressing circumstances when surely the whole point is that his living circumstances ARE IRRELEVANT the paramedics acted irresponsibly,illegally,callously ,unprofessionally and stupidly
Does that answer your question?

FioFio · 05/01/2009 09:46

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resolutions · 05/01/2009 11:19

medical professionals may notice lack of self care etc,it should in no way impact on quality of medical care given.
It seems the paramedics/ambulance drivers were unaware of their correct role and took a decision not in their capacity while they were unaware they could be overheard
a decision not to treat is only taken if a person is dead for some time such as hours/days and there is evidence of this.

MrsMerryHenry · 05/01/2009 14:42

Resolutions, I don't believe I've said anywhere on this thread that I think the medics behaved in an acceptable way, have I? You're sitting on your high horse but clearly have paid no attention to what I have been saying . Get off your horse and open your mind.

Sandcastles, am for your awful experience of carpal t. I had it during pg as well but nothing like as bad as you. It's such a weird condition to have just because you want a child, isn't it? Anyway it's not me that's living in clutter, it's somebody else very close to me who I'd really like to help. Once in a while I encounter a homeless person who's really destitute and I can almost imagine this person ending up like them because of the way his life is at the moment. It horrifies me. So this story...I can't bear to think about the possibility of this person I know ending up like that.

It beggars belief that someone in the medical profession could be so callous just because somebody is living in a mess. It goes without saying that they should be seriously disciplined. In the case of the person I know, I want to understand more and help him as best as I can.

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resolutions · 05/01/2009 15:05

mrs merryhenry...[maybe not that merry]
someonein the medical profession wasn't callous because the man was living in a mess...
it was because they are unfit professionals..
it happens that people get through the loop sometimes,think Harold Shipman,he was a murderer who happened to be a doctor,he didn't do it because he was a doctor or because the victims were old
The man's living conditions are not the issue here
who is it who's not paying attention I wonder...

resolutions · 05/01/2009 15:12

ps am not on horse

MrsMerryHenry · 05/01/2009 15:30

Resolutions, you say I'm not very merry - not on this thread, no. I wonder why?

Yes, the man's living conditions ARE the issue. Do you think they would have made the same decision had he been living in a palace? (that's not a rhetorical question, by the way)

Of course they were unfit to be in that position and they made that decision because they themselves were ethical and emotional morons; that goes without saying. But it's obvious that they took one look at his place and decided based on his living conditions that he 'wasn't worth saving', so their appalling judgement was made based on his living conditions.

Now, aren't you guilty of doing exactly what you've accused me of: jumping to presumptuous conclusions? You say that I have jumped to conclusions about the man's family based on paltry information about them. I actually asked in my OP 'is the family to blame?', but you read it as 'the family is to blame'. I said that his family had 'apparently' neglected him - i.e. it appears to be the case, but may not be. But you've read it as 'the family is guilty of neglect'. Some people on this thread have bothered to offer suggestions but you've just thrown in accusations.

I then later explained in some detail very personal reasons why this story is of interest to me. Fair enough some other people misunderstood me at the outset, as did you, but you could then have changed your argument in the light of the fresh information I've presented. But you've chosen not to. So why exactly are you still on this thread?

I'm getting rather bored with this, now, I had thought this conversation was moving on. Thanks to those who offered well-considered opinions.

OP posts:
resolutions · 05/01/2009 15:34

it was a pointless unkind thread which made no sense

MrsMerryHenry · 05/01/2009 15:36

You are remarkably good at sidestepping direct questions.

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resolutions · 05/01/2009 15:56

thanks

TheDevilWearsPrimark · 05/01/2009 16:01

From a peronal perspective, my great uncle suffered terribly with arthritis and sank into depression after his wife died. He never invited anyone to his house but would o out to others and to the pub etc always immaculately turned out.

No one had any real cause for concern until he fell ill and went into hospital, my grandfather went to his house to bring clothes etc and found the most horrible sight, months worth of rubbish, mouldy plates, faeces stained bed sheets etc.

No one was to know, and I know how my family would feel if the paramedics had treated him the same.

BabyBaby123 · 05/01/2009 16:20

bless him, how sad the paramedics are total bastards - I hope they get a sufficient punishment. Agree the family could have done more, it's a shame he was too proud to allow help into his home, although I do wonder how true that is - maybe the family member is covering up his own failings?