Oh look. It's cold outside and Gazprom (Russia) is bullying the Ukraine...

[AtheneNoctua]

and therefore threatening to cut off their gas supply to Western Europe.... AGAIN.

What a shock.

Guess that will help keep the price of gas up. Russias own little price fixing sceme to ensure their income.

Onager - most capitalists don't refuse to supply goods that have already been paid for. Not great for customer relations

We can't read minds or trust public statements from any side, but we can work some things out.

It was a new contract for Ukraine so Russia could charge what they damn well pleased. Therefore they didn't need to lie or cheat. This business about Russia not paying enough for transporting the gas to Europe is just an excuse. It will have been an amount agreed and signed for.

So Russia charges Ukraine the market price and Ukraine can't afford to pay it. Ukraine has to keep taking gas since they can't survive without it. They make up excuses (just like we would if we were too skint to pay the elec bill)

Russia has no way to stop them taking it so they cut down on the entire gas supply. They know it will leave Europe short, but they figure that means we will band together to force Ukraine to pay up.

So do you blame Russia for selling it's gas at the market price, Ukraine for not being able to pay the bill or both of them for lying in order to get our sympathy and to have us on their side.

Either way as I said before we should have known something like this would happen and built nuclear power stations instead under our control.

Well, about transport fees. Russia had sa down and counted how much they will pay coming from their economic understandings. They put the price. Whe russia offered ukraine to pay 250 dollars ukraine said no cpz Ukraine counted itself that it would cost 201 dollars. Russia decided to cut off gas. Not the first time..
So Ukraine has to ytake a low rent for russain fleet in the Crimea, low rates for transpoting gas and pay as much miney as russia wants??? Then in June Russia says thr prices are too ,ow we cut the gas and you pay more... There should be a schem on bulding up prices gradually but not in shock way!!

And one more important thing!!!
It was started not really abouit prices but about arreas. Well, Russian Gazprom has made a company, called ROSUKRENERGO, which deals with the payment transfers between two countries. And how come Ukraine has paid to this company and russia didn't not recieve the payment??? Russian company not transfering money.. it is all strange. Not economics but yet again, politics!!!!! And politics should stay away from business. But unfortunatly our countries do not know how to separate them!!!

Ukrainianmum, great insite. Thank you for posting.

Onager,
There are huge assumptions in your post. Things you can not possibly know.

Funny how Russia always cuts the gas off in the dead of winter.

Onager-what market prices??? even in Europe it will fall down soon... And we shall sign the contract???
Russia is pumping gas to Europe from today. They have requiered their monitorers at each side of the gas tube and they say-we open tube at nine so the gas should be there at the end, in Europe at nine which is nonsecne!!!total bullsh**t. They, Russians know that it takes 36 hours for a gas to get thru system. and plus they still didn't give the requiered amount of gas to transport it.. Is is fair??? we give our gas so Europe will have theirs...Where is the truth??
And for some info-it is cold here, real winter you know!!!!!

Noctua-thank you for brining up this issue ...And for support

ukrainianmum, do you work in the oil business? Or is the average Ukranian citizen quite informed about this issue?

(I work in oil. Have no connection myself to either Ukraine or Russia)

I do not work in oil, I am a housewife/student...I am a very concerned citizen

Onager,
There are huge assumptions in your post. Things you can not possibly know.>>

Well that's what I said. Both sides want us to back them so will shade the truth to suit. All you can do is make an educated guess as to what's really going on.

I wasn't defending the market price thing as it happens. Just saying that under current rules/customs Russia can charge what they like. They will try and find a price that is as high as their customers can possibly afford to pay. That's how Capitalism works. Your local electricity/gas/water companies do the same thing.

I'm not a great fan of Capitalism you see. It works a bit, but mostly if you have 10 suppliers so the market forces keep things reasonable. When you have a limited number of suppliers or they band together to agree prices then capitalism is brutal and oppressive.

In this case it sounds like people in the Ukraine will freeze because of it. Maybe we should rethink the whole capitalism/supply and demand thing.

But I have a close friend of mine in oil business.He works for Merryll Lynch, a trader. he just sends me lot of info.and I work it all out

I think you have a whole other axe to grind, Onager.

What Russia is doing is not normal fair business practise in the Western capitalist work. It is only normal business in the Russian bully the small guy world. They were like this before they were capitalist.

I think the probability of Russia being a liar is far greater than Ukraine -- and that says a lot more about Russian than it does about the Ukraine.

Well, contracts has been signed . For 10 years... And apparently we won!!!