According to Pope Benedict, saving humanity from homosexuality is as important as saving the rainforests.

[LittleJingleBellas]

So just remember that when you're doing your recycling.

Mrs Freud - you understood him to be "saying that homosexuality is unacceptable"

That is not even consistent with Catholic teaching. Why is it acceptable to attack the leader of an organised religeon for what people imagine he might think, rather than what he actually said?

grr

makes me so angry

lots of my chums bleating 'give him a chance!' when I shouted WHERE'S MY GUN at the sight of the white smoke

He'll always be Ratzinger to me

rant rant

Why is that MorningPaper?

Upwind, he says that the marriage between a man and woman must be protected as it is sacrasant (sp?). All else is what then? you tell me? he is intentionally being vague and waffley (how many times did you have to read his speech to understand what he is saying?) Seriously, why make all the talk so flowery and open to interpretation? why can't he be clear in his dictats? whay doesn't he mention sex outside marriage gay or straight being unacceptable. That's what he thinks surely!!

Isn't the Pope catholic? - can't see why the fuss?

MrsFreud - It does not read well because it is an unofficial translation. If your language skills are good enough, it should not be difficult to source the original text and report back on its nuances.

The fact remains - there is no mention of homosexuality, or transexuals either for that matter. Sloppy or mischevious journalists have created a fuss about nothing. I don't see why you think he should explicitly have condemned extramarital sex? The stance of the Catholic church on that is hardly a secret, and it is not inconsistent with the other established religions.

To quote KayHarker from earlier in the thread: "Catholic teaching is that marriage or complete celibacy are the only acceptable lifestyles. Think it stupid if you will, but to suggest that just because the pope has referenced 'marriage' means that he's having a pop specifically at homosexuality is great at creating a headline but not good for much more."

Promiscuity doesn't preclude procreation though does it? Mind you, neither does gayness these days now I think about it.

Also, yes, America and the West consumes more than it's fair share of resources. I'm still not clear, and forgive me if I'm being a bit thick, how this would be helped by making more Americans?

You are right Upwind, his stance is not a secret, but anytime he makes a big speech to promote his views, he also lays himself open for ridicule and opposition. That's what free speech is about. As long as it makes people think about more than their stockings then it has to be good!

Upwind - don't you think they would have known they would create headlines with this? I wonder if the headlines are the same in other countries?

I'm not sure, Raspberryblower - on headlines, that is. We in the UK have such a long fierce tradition of antipopery, with quite a bodycount, and there are still some quirky bits of anticatholic legislation lying around from the time when catholics couldn't go to university or be MPs or civil servants etc. I think the Beeb was probably being Very British and leaping to a bunch of untested assumptions about what the Pope said.

The Beeb didn't know much about gender theory either

RaspberryBlower - you mean they should have known that the BBC would run with such a bizarre and factually incorrect story? I was curious about other countries, and it seems to be just the UK media that has gone wild.

I guess the notion could be that we preserve resources for our children and their children. If your lifestyle makes procreation less likely you might be more focused on present consumption.

MrsFreund - I agree but don't see how it is a good thing that the reporting on so many news subjects has to be so twisted.

Right enough Jane, antipopery or not, I try to take anything I see reported anywhere in the press in this country with a pinch of salt.

I think the fact that the Pope gave his speech in Rome is irrelevant. It was not for the Italian people, but for Catholics worldwide. Given the furore in the Anglican church over gay marriage, and the recent Proposition Eight battle in the States it is disingenuous to think that homosexuality was not on the Pope's mind when he wrote that speech.

I am amazed that the whole world hasn't told the Catholic church to go and fuck itself with regard to pronouncements on sexual behaviour. After their institutionalised protection of child abusers was revealed, Catholic high command lost any right to comment on other people's consensual activities - well no, OK, any old buckethead can comment on anything he or she likes. But they sure lost any moral high ground they might have fancied they had.

Hopefully Peter Tatchell will now pop over to Rome and chuck a nice pair of slippers at the bigoted old fart.

No, I mean that the Vatican is no doubt as media savvy as the next enormously powerful worldwide organisation and they will have people whose job it is to know how the pope's speeches will be interpreted and reported by the press. Upwind, just curious to know how you know about other countries. Have you been googling?

I absolutely don't believe that gay people (or whoever's lifestyle might make them less likely to procreate) are less likely to be concerned about the environment. That is absolute twaddle and certainly not in my experience of the gay people that I know. Or any of the promiscuous hussies that I know either, for that matter!

LOL, it's not just the BBC which interpreted it this way - the news has been full of catholics defending / condemning him on the basis that he was also referring to homosexuals as well (in the context of other non-procreating consumerist lifestyles).

(Bit of an aside but I've had BBC News 24 on most of the day while wrapping presents and isn't it shit? The same stories with very little new analysis (apart from this bloody one) and hardly any international news at all. WTF is the point of a 24 hour news channel that just repeats the same stuff you can hear on Radio 4?)

Does he still have that very pretty cardinal as his 'right hand' man?

Heh-heh, I'd enjoy seeing Peter Tatchell have a go at him. I used to find PT an annoying little man, but he has a lot of respect from me these days for the consistency and sincerity of his beliefs.

Lol at the ' very pretty cardinal'.

Solid - that is very true.

I want to acknowledge that while I don't agree with a lot of what the Catholic church says and does, and while there have been so many tragic abuse horrors associated with it, I know there will be individual priests, nuns and lay members who do a lot of good charitable work. I think that historically they have sometimes been a force for (positive) political change as well. The nun who campaigns against the death penalty in America springs to mind. It's a shame that there is such a conservative pope (after the last very conservative pope) who insists on banging on about the outmoded and bigoted aspects of Catholic dogma.