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Original poster

Is it really in the public interest to prosecute this man for his childrens' deaths.

28 replies

StripeyKnickersSpottySocks · 10/12/2008 12:43

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article5308760.ece

Really sad story, I accept that because of his incompetent mechanical repairs his landrover was dangerous and because of this his children died. But there's no suggestion he thought the vehical was dangerous, he maybe thought he'd done a great amateur repair job. Regardless I'm sure the death of 4 of his children is punishment enough. If he gets found guilty he may well go to prison which I think would be terrible for him and his other children.

OP posts:
fishie · 10/12/2008 12:46

of course he should. he knew what he was doing and he made the modifications so that he could go off roading. what if he'd hit another car and killed four children in that instead of his own?

cmotdibbler · 10/12/2008 12:48

If it was a friend of the family who had caused the childrens death would you feel the same ?

He was driving in a dangerous way, irrespective of the modifications, and as a mechanic, should have known better than to use assymetric callipers.

Parents have a duty to protect their children from forseeable harm, and if they don't, they should be punished for it.

notdoingthehousework · 10/12/2008 12:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ThomcatIsForLifeNotJustForXmas · 10/12/2008 12:50

But her wasn't making repapirs, he was making moderations to make it more fun to drive off road. This the family car. He failed to make repairs. He was also driving dangerously according to witnesses.

He caused the accident and yes of course he should have to face some consequences for that.

MmeHereWeGoAWassailLindt · 10/12/2008 12:52

He is a mechanic. He is not a guy who likes to fiddle with the car at the weekends. He must have known that the car was dangerous, the brake pedal had to be floored to be effective. He knows the car would would not have passed an MOT

There is no excuse for his actions and, yes he should be punished by law.

ThomcatIsForLifeNotJustForXmas · 10/12/2008 12:54

?A number of the modifications were ill-judged, many were incompetently carried out and he also failed to carry out a number of repairs.?

Mr Spencer told the jury that the brake pedals were worn and that, as a result, the brake pedal had to be pressed ?pretty much down to the floor? before it began to stop the car.

Experts also found the steering and rear axle to be defective.

The jury was told that Mr Gresham had been driving at between 50 and 60mph along the narrow stretch of country lane

chocolatedot · 10/12/2008 13:03

He admitted the brake pedal had to be virtually on the floor to work - how could any sane person think that's a safe vehicle to carry your kids in?

Sidge · 10/12/2008 13:06

He should be found guilty - his actions have directly caused the death of 4 children, even if unintentionally.

If he had hit my car and killed my children he ought to go to prison, so why not a custodial sentence for being responsible for the deaths of his own children?

It would be a shaky one if you let people off prison thinking 'they've suffered enough'. It would send a message that your actions can cause death but you'd "get away with it".

jesuswhatnext · 10/12/2008 14:13

would anyone think he had 'suffered enough' if the car had been perfect but he had been drinking?

thought not! he knew he was driving a dangerous car but still did it, no difference in my book to drunk driving - all equally reprehensible.

cheeseandsproutssarnie · 10/12/2008 14:17

what fishie said.

Blu · 10/12/2008 14:29

Yes.

The children were people in their own right. The law is there because it is illegal to do things that potentially cause the death of other people.

I wouldn't be surprised if his sentence does not infact includ prison, but 'death of own child' is not a part of our justice system.

he was really, dangerously stupid, for reasons to d with his hobby.

You can't just ignore the law when emotion takes over.

FeelingOld · 10/12/2008 14:50

If the work he did on his car made it dangerous to drive on the road then yes he should be prosecuted however sorry we feel for him. Also if you saw the stretch of road he was on you would be gobsmacked he was driving so fast when another vehicle was coming in the opposite direction cos its a very narrow road with only a piece of grass separating the road from the river (I live not too far from where it happened).

Original poster
StripeyKnickersSpottySocks · 10/12/2008 18:09

I guess you're all right, I'm probably too much of a softie about things like this. My worst fear is having a car accident and my dd dying and the police saying it was my fault and sending me to prison.

OP posts:
Lulumama · 10/12/2008 18:12

poor children and their mother. i wonder if she knew about how unroadworthy the vehicle was?

i think if you make certain modifications to your car, you cannot get insurance, or it is at a much higher rate so surely that says something

if he had killed 4 other children, would there be any question of his culpability and him being punished

LittleJingleBellas · 10/12/2008 20:04

Yes. It is in the public interest. And in the interests of justice.

lil · 10/12/2008 20:18

I don't see how its in the public interest. He isn't a threat to anyone else, and he jails alongside real abusers and murderes He just didn't think enough, maybe not the brightest spanner in the box, but losing 4 children has got to be the worst punishment on the planet why the hell are you all so willing to increase it??? He's hardly going to repeat the crime is he??? and the loss of his kids sends out warning to others. As I said, whats to gain by it????

lil · 10/12/2008 20:19

apologies for the prolific use of ??????

Lulumama · 10/12/2008 20:38

because maybe next time some bloke thinks it is ok to drive his family around in some cobbled together death trap, he might just remember this case, and the fact he could be prosecuted and potentially imprisoned

his actions indirectly, or even directly, caused 4 children to lose their lives

being their father does not absolve him of the responsibility that society demands people to take when lives are needlessly ended

georgimama · 10/12/2008 20:43

My worst fear isn't that I kill my child in a car accident that is my fault and I get sent to prison, Stripey, which you say as if the prison part is the worst bit.

My worst fear is that I negligently do something to harm my child.

And yes, he should be prosecuted, for all the reasons everyone else has said. Those children might have been his children but they weren't his property, as if he had written off his own car and therefore got his just desserts. They were people in their own right, who had the right not to have their lives taken from them.

Lulumama · 10/12/2008 20:58

if he had got into a normal , unmodified car, but high on drugs, or 3 times over the limit and had a fatal crash.. would we even be having this debate

he had done stuff to his car that made it dangerous and compromised the safety of himself, passengers and other road users

why is that any different to getting behind the wheel in a dangerous state of intoxication, where you are far more likely to cause or be in aa crash?

Lulumama · 10/12/2008 20:59

if he had got into a normal , unmodified car, but high on drugs, or 3 times over the limit and had a fatal crash.. would we even be having this debate

he had done stuff to his car that made it dangerous and compromised the safety of himself, passengers and other road users

why is that any different to getting behind the wheel in a dangerous state of intoxication, where you are far more likely to cause or be in aa crash?

colacubes · 10/12/2008 21:08

He was an absolute idiot, it was plainly obvious the car was not safe, he knew it, but he obviously lived by the old myth "it wont happen to me" well it didnt it happened to his children. So to answer your question, yes he should be punished, he is responsible, he should go to prison.

nkf · 10/12/2008 21:11

He has to be punished because the children are human beings who have the right not to have their lives endangered and ultimately lost by a careless fool. Even if the careless fool does happen to be their father.

LittleJingleBellas · 10/12/2008 21:31

"and he jails alongside real abusers and murderes "

TBH I think anyone who deliberately puts their child in a vehicle they know to be dangerous and then drives that vehicle in a careless manner as he did, is a real abuser.

Abuse can take many forms. Arrogant disregard for the safety of your children is not the most obvious form of abuse, but blimey the consequences are obvious.

Reallytired · 10/12/2008 22:41

He was an idiot, but he did not diliberately kill his children. It is not fair to compare him with child abusers like the parents of baby P, or Victoria Climbe's aunt. I think this man was stupid rather than evil. He will have to live with the deaths of his children for the rest of his life.

I think a suspended jail sentence would be more appriopate and if he is caught illegally modifying a car then he should serve the suspended jail sentence. That would deter him from modifying anymore cars.

I also think he should be banned from driving for life.