So are the runway invaders at Stansted eco nazis or are they just trying to save the world?

[jujumaman]

I think we all fly way too much and am growing increasingly cross about stag weekends/shopping weekends abroad being taken as a norm.

But I'm not sure this kind of direct action is going to do anything to endear the green movement to the public.

What do you think?

What is emotive about it? As far as I can tell, the more I find out about climate change, the more worrying the situation is. My opinions (which may sound emotive) are based on reading a lot about it, and the more I know about it, the worse it sounds.

I think people are massively underreacting to the severity of the issue. And I think future generations will look back and think "WTF were they playing at, ignoring this?"

I'd be interested to see the scientific evidence that shows that someone taking their one annual short-haul flight (as a lot of people yesterday will have been doing) is responsible for "utterly destroying the planet" and for ultimately making "normal life" impossible.

oh eco nazis and twats

Collectively, our behaviour in this country and other western countries, is doing this.

And many of those at Stanstead will not have been taking their "one, annual, short haul flight". The people I saw quoted, one was visiting their second home abroad, and one was going to a German Christmas market for the day. These are increasingly common behaviours in our society, there might be people who take one short haul flight a year, but there are many who take far more than than.

of course the excessive flying around of planes is v bad but did the protesters not consider that the planes would have to be diverted from Stansted,thus probably travelling further and the people on the planes will then need to be bussed to where they were meant to be in the first place -

But that isn't the point chocolatedot. Where do you start if not with Stansted. That is an airport that is set to get much bigger. Why not start there?

UQD - I've done the letter writing and the petition signing. I've been to planning meetings and has my say. And guess what? It more often than not makes not the slightest bit of difference. Doesn't mean I won't do it anymore as there are little successes sometimes, but stopping Stansted expansion, making people think about suffering little inconveniences to stop a much bigger one, needs more than a little success.

How do you stop the general public not caring about something important. Letters and petitions aren't going to cut it really.

I want UQD to superglue himself to the Council Offices.

They are eco-Nazis.

I only fly about every 4 years and if they had disrupted my holiday I would have swung for them.

Unless the protestors from Plane Stupid walked to the airport then they are hypocrits because cars are doing more damage now than planes.

Scientific research simply doesn't support aviation as being the key to solving climate change and as I said, protests like this tend to alienate people.

One thing I would like to see is a grass roots campaign for schools, hospitals, council offices to turn the thermostat down. I have no idea why children are spending winters indoors in short sleeves and why hospitals are so hideously oppressive.

I wasn't caught up in this but would no doubt have been livid if I had (especially as I have flown once in the last FIVE years) as would a lot of people supporting them, no doubt.

Well, I've said all I need to say on here without repeating myself, I think.

I'm in a moderate boring local sustainable energy group. It is boring. and not very effective. It doesn't offend anyone. It writes nice little pieces for the village newsletter on how to painlessly change things to reduce energy use in various ways.

But I don't believe that these small, slowly-enacted changes are enough to deal with the problem. Really I think we should all be supergluing ourselves to the runways. And just cos I don't quite get around to it myself, I still very much approve of people who do.

I disagree Fennel. I think it's precisely the dull low key stuff that ultimately works. Sure it take time but re-educating people is a long slow process. There has been a huge change in the recycling ethos in this country and attitudes to things like plastic bag usage has changed enormously. Issues like this get people thinking.

The recession will do more for people's attitude to waste than any supergluing ever could IMO.

I agree that recession is likely to be good news for climate change, though horrible for many people stuck in it.

But all the increase in recycling and plastic bag use is just utterly wiped out by increases in flying and car use. You can recycle all year, and all the good you've done is wiped out by one short haul flight. Which is a pain. I love flying. I adore travelling in exotic places and going on holidays abroad. My job, til recently, consisted of managing international research project, which entail use a lot of flying. And it's not a job you can do without attending international meetings. I know how very pleasant and useful flying is.

but I think it's unacceptable, from an environmentally aware perspective.

i just wonder if once they're adults with their own children, they'll be jumping on planes like everyone else.

Predictions are that aviation will account for up to 25% of UK carbon emissions in coming decades.

Each and every flight taken is part of the problem. I for one will never fly, and I do not drive either.

Sure, there are so very many other parts to this problem, but this is one that is so very easy to change. We don't need to fly, or to expand airports. Its sheer lunacy to think it an essential, or right.

But Fennel my point is that by getting people to think about recycling etc, you will gradually encourage people to think about the bigger issues and start the education process.

Well hopefully, Chocolatedot. But climate change issues are quite urgent, by current predictions. And people's behaviour and awareness, and current UK government initiatives, are only changing gradually.

And there's a worry that people will think they are "doing their bit" if they recycle, say, or reuse plastic bags. When it just isn't anywhere near enough change.

Fair point. I'm sure there will be a dramatic change with our children's generation - they are just so much more aware.

What worries me is we're damned if we do and damned if we don't

If we don't trade internationally, have a tourism industry etc then our economy is completely **ed.

But if we carry on flying then the world's ecology is **ed.

Either way it seems we're doomed to returning to the stone age.

And a merry Christmas to one and all

Well we are supposed to be on track to cut carbon emissions by 80% or something, and last time I looked they were still rising, or only falling very slowly, so someone needs to give the govt and us all collectively a big slap round the face! Good on them I say.

"i just wonder if once they're adults with their own children, they'll be jumping on planes like everyone else" Yup, and also they already use planes without realising - unless they can somehow ensure that every grocery item they buy, everything they wear, every book they read, etc., has been produced in the UK or has come into the country by ship.

Lots of people I know do check all those things and make big efforts to buy local produce. I'm involved in groups about that too. But it's slow. The changes that way are happening slower than the rate at which carbon emissions are increasing.

And I know increasing numbers of adults who used to fly and now either don't at all, or very rarely.

Ho hum As an adult with children I haven't jumped on a plane for about 7 yrs. And amazingly we do have decent holidays.

I take the point about air freight. And I do try to buy locally. But you could argue that food is more of an essential than flying people about the planet for fun.

Also, like anything to do with climate change, it's just not that simple. Farmers in Africa wouldn't have the opportunity to sell their produce without air freight. It seems pretty awful to reject a Kenyan farmer's green beans when said farmer's own imprint is virtually zero (he will probably have no fridge, no electricity, no car and use traditional farming methods). I don't know what the answer is and while we are almost self-sufficient in fruit and veg for much of the year, I feel uncomfortable in turning away from African/Carribbean produce.