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Warning as Awful - Question is what should be done about this?

28 replies

Itsjustsorandom · 06/12/2008 11:12

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1092389/The-braying-pack-youths-gang-raped-14-year-old-schoolgirl.h tml

What should be done to stop this happening again? What has gone so wrong with people?

I wrote to my mp about baby P & got no response. I voice opinions here but what good does that do?

OP posts:
ahfeckit · 06/12/2008 12:23

I also read about this story on a news website this morning, what a horrific ordeal that young girl has went through. what a shocking world we live in.

ChukkyPig · 06/12/2008 12:30

I don't think there's anything you can do. it is a horrendous story. Not the only of it's type in recent times.

I wonder if these things get reported more than they used to?

I think the thing that i find most shocking is the age of some of the attckers - I think I read some were 13 - i just don't get it.

Lizzylou · 06/12/2008 12:32

My Stepmom is a youth worker, one of the things that she said she has noticed is the lack of respect young men/teenage boys have for teenage girls and in turn the low self-esteem young girls have. It is nothing for 13 year old lads to just walk up to a girl and "feel her up" (intimately)with no response.
She says it is truly shocking.

spookycharlotte121 · 06/12/2008 12:34

Im not sure if there is anything you can do except try and be the best parent possible. Teach your children right from wrong and pray to god this never happens to them. I have a ds and a dd and I would be utterly devistated if either took part of were the victim of something like this.

We live in a truely terrible world. I not sure if there is a sollution to this sort of thing. I hope that girl who was attacked is ok, what a horrific thing to go through.

ChukkyPig · 06/12/2008 12:34

Lizzy what does you mum think can be done?

IAteMakkaPakka · 06/12/2008 12:35

I think there's obviously something very, very lacking in the upbringing of these kids - because that's what they are - that they behave this way. I can't bring myself to pity them but there's some fundamental problem with morals, values and respect for others before you get behaviour like this. The "pack" aspect of it it frightening too.

TheSeriousSanta · 06/12/2008 12:36

It's so sad, but until the police and authorities have REAL powers to dish out REAL sentences, then nothing, sadly, will change.

I'm not going to condone the fact that two women walked past her, but I'm not going to say that I would have had the courage to do anything else. I'd like to think I would, but there is a great level of fear of reprisal in many of these places.

What's most sad is the age of these criminals. They will get treated with kid gloves and KNOW the authorities can't touch them.

For me, castration would be a good option (chemical at the very least). If a dog behaved in this matter, it would be lucky to escape with it's life, and these criminal are no better than animals.

But, there will be many people that tell me it's not fair on their human rights to consider castration in order to curb someone's (disgusting and vile) behaviour.

Human rights.... So ironic that they care so much about their own but don't give a flying fuck for anyone elses.

Lizzylou · 06/12/2008 12:38

Chukkypig, sorry had to answer phone.

One thing they do is take the teen girls away on weekends to build up their selfesteem so they realise that disrespectful behaviour is wrong and have the gumption to say so.

I don't know what can be done about the boys, as a Mother of two I know I will be bringing them up to respect females.

I realise in this case the girl had no control over what happened to her.

ChukkyPig · 06/12/2008 12:41

i didn't read the Mail article as i've already read on BBC and didn't want to have to read the "gory details" IYSWIM as so upsetting.

Two women walked past and did nothing?

i can understand maybe about not intervening there are then but didn't they call the police?

IAteMakkaPakka · 06/12/2008 12:42

So, Santa, you think a 14 year old boy should be castrated? There must be something wrong with a child of that age to behave like that, surely - it's a problem which must surely have its roots much deeper than that he's a shit who deserves to experience some form of revenge?

TheSeriousSanta · 06/12/2008 12:43

Lizzy - Teaching girls to respect themselves is important, but when I went to Uni (VERY conservative Asian area), there were a gang of lads who used to call white girls slags, bitches, cows, prostitues and much worse, and no-ever ever said anything.

They always singled out girls alone or in small groups and in vunerable situations. There was loads of anecdotal evidence, but no tangible evidence so they got away with it.

The ring leader was this MASSIVE bloke, and I used to feel paniky just seeing him. I would ALWAYS make sure I stayed out of his way.

I did hear stories that his behaviour was much worse than just name calling, and though I have no evidence to say it was, I can certainly believe it.

TheSeriousSanta · 06/12/2008 12:47

IateMakkapakka - I am not saying (and didn't say) that he should be castrated and thrown to one side, but yes, I think some sort of chemical castration to deal with the short term effect (no desire or ability to 'function') would aid rehabilitation.

I appreciate that will be lots of people telling that it's unfair etc., but there MUST be a reasonable deterant.

I come from what I suppose would be classed as a less nice town in the UK - tops the least desirable places to live list on a regular basis. THere is NO fear of the police, no fear of jail, no fear of criminal justice or retribution. NONE.

Until there is SOME fear that something you really don't want to happen to you happening, then NOTHING will change. In fact, it'll just get worse and worse.

TheSeriousSanta · 06/12/2008 12:49

Sorry, should also add that there are LOADS of good, decent people in these estates too, but they are too scared of retribution, of violence and the inability of the police to do ANYTHING to help, that they just keep quiet and go along with it.

ChukkyPig · 06/12/2008 12:50

A lot of men have dire ideas about women - men and boys of all classes, races, political persuasions, socio economic groups etc.

i wonder if this has always gone on but wasn't reported so much - to police and in the papers.

The real question is how do we stop men and boys preying on women and comitting sexual violence. I really don't know what the answer is.

IAteMakkaPakka · 06/12/2008 12:50

Yes but surely that's dealing with the consequences only - ie you are assuming that people are going around with a desire to do these things and the way to stop it is to deter them.

I am saying that there shouldn't be a need for a deterrent - there should be some way of addressing the inherent inadequacies in the early lives of these kids that makes them think this sort of thing is OK.

Mrsmumofmonsters · 06/12/2008 12:53

I don't know what can be done about that situation, but gang rape is not a new thing and gang rape of teens not either (IME) I think these things get reported a lot more now because the stigma attached to rape is being eroded and people are finally seeing it as the horrible crime that it really is rather than something you either deserve or hush up for fear of "what the neighbours will think"

(disclaimer: people meaning society)

Lizzylou · 06/12/2008 12:54

Santa, where my Stepmom works is very much a mix of classes/cultures, so not a race or class issue at all.
Our children should be taught respect for everyone (including themselves).

There does seem to be a turn around with popular society (gangsta rap/music videos in general, that awful aerobics one springs to mind with crotch shots of scantily clad women) where women are very much shown as sex objects.

TheSeriousSanta · 06/12/2008 12:57

Agreed, IateMakkapakka - it would be much better to deal with the kids before they get to that point.

But, I think that also comes back to creating a void at the 'top' of the gang.... Right now, it's the strongest authority figure in these kids (mostly boys) lives.

They don't respect their police, their teachers, their parents, their elders, the government... (and I don't say this lightly) because they stick two fingers up to the whole lot of them and get away with it.

YOu do that to a superiour gang member, or a rival gang member, and you won't have fingers (or MUCH worse). I am NOT saying this is right at all, but it's easy to see that the most powerful person on the estate right now is the gang member / leader. THat's who these boys turn to when they need something and that's how they get sucked in.

In lots of gangs, leaving is simply not an option.

ChukkyPig · 06/12/2008 12:57

mrsmum I agree that is we all start talking about sexual violence then it might be a start, rather than being embarassed and pretending things don't happen.

I don't see any change though until the way the police etc treat sexual offences changes and we find a way to get more convictions. It seems to me that the only time the police are interested is when it is an attack of this sort - a rare and brutal and shocking attack.

smartiejake · 06/12/2008 13:07

What a horrific story -that poor girl. I am partucularly shocked that two women saw what was happening and did nothing. Ok so may be you wouldn't want to confront a gang of thugs but the very least they could have done is call the police.

Very shocked also as the report claims that a similar attack happened in Bllericay ,where I live, last January. I am sure that is a story I would have remembered.

I was so shocked I googled the story and the attack actually happened in Tottenham but the girl was treated in the Billericay Burns unit.

Also very strange as the Billericay Burns unit was moved to Broomfields hospital in Chelmsford about 8 years ago and this attack happened in January of this year.

Someone really should be checking their sources. Bloody Daily Mail.

justverysad · 06/12/2008 13:15

-WARNING ---

Please be aware that it is very likely mum of this girl and friends are mn-ers.

I am.

Posts so far are clearly OK in this respect, just a warning in case it gets heated. A warning that in all likelihood is not needed at all. Just feel I'd be a bit c* if I didn't say something.

Too sad really to have any coherent views.

ChukkyPig · 06/12/2008 13:18

justverysad I am so sorry.

catsmother · 06/12/2008 13:25

This poor, poor girl.

Yes - it's shocking that 2 women saw her and apparently did nothing, though as someone else has said they were probably frightened (though could have called police out of earshot).

What I find even more shocking is the cold and callous attitude of the mothers of two of the boys accused. When you read stuff like that I just despair as it's clear these kids have been dragged up with no respect whatsoever for women.

TheButterflyEffect · 06/12/2008 13:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Mrsmumofmonsters · 06/12/2008 13:40

rape is not about sex

justverysad, i am so very sorry for you. have you(and this poor girl) been in touch with rape crisis? or your local rape crisis team?

She is a very incredibly brave girl to have spoken out about what happened or at least allowed the story to be in the paper(i haven;t read the link, i am sorry, its something i cannot do, i hope you understand)