Oh FFS I am shaking... has there been a thread yet about Minette Marin's unbelievable column on babies with Down's syndrome?

[emkana]

words fail me

I have to say I don't know who irritates me more: Minette Marin or India Knight. Two crass pieces, neither of which does justice to the topic.

countingthegreyhairs - it is likely the editor saw the piece as a "hard-hitting piece of journalism that was bound to raise a few eyebrows" - I wrote to the editor of the Times (Saturday) to complain about something unutterable a few years back and that was the tone of the response I got.

Emkana, your DS looks gorgeous!

i couldnt finish the article, too horrible. What a nasty woman. Why is an unborn baby with special needs any different from one born with them

The way we treat and respect the more vulnerable members of our society is both a sign of civilisation and a perpetual reminder of the dangers of a superioty complex.
Stupid bitch.

I saw young twelve year old girl with downs today, handing out christmas cards to her friends, dancing about and singing jingle bells. This particular child is very similar to other children of her age.

She does have learning difficulties, but I am sure that she will be able to work and live independently when she is older.

I think that many people with Downs find that hearing and eye sight problems are a bigger issue than intellegence problems.

well my imperfect child has cerebral palsy and no-one could have predicted that before birth. Should I just get rid of her now? Yes, we are a damaged family with a damaged baby - gloriously damaged, wonderfully imperfect and I wouldn't change a thing.

emkana- your ds is a heartbreaker

"beanie, so you would abort a child with am extra chromosone, what would you do if your child suffered a brain injury during birth? Or discover your child had ASD at 5? Or they have a car accident in their 40's? Put them on the scrap heap too?? "

of course not.

But I would take advantage of all the tests I can have during pregnancy and then make a decision based upon my own feelings and my own life.

I don't consider myself brave for having the opinion I do and I do apologise if my choices for my pregnancy or my life are upsetting for other people but I think many many women make the same choices I would make if I were in that position.

and I find it incredibly weird that someone would want me to go through with such a pregnancy based upon the hypothetical chance that a child I might decide to keep might suffer brain damage or be ugly. That's just rediculous.

ThumbElf, yes I think (sadly) you are right - let's hope they publish the other side of the argument ..it's ... well ... plain wrong .. for this to go out unchallenged

The very lovely child with DS at my childs Portage group has much more ability than my own dd who is a year older.DD SN were not apparent by any pre-natal testing.I think the authour is VERY shortsighted.Additionally although dd will probably never be able to hold down a job or function as a "Normal" person she has taught me so much and is very loving,and I would not be without her.

and I find it incredibly weird that someone would want me to go through with such a pregnancy based upon the hypothetical chance that a child I might decide to keep might suffer brain damage or be ugly. That's just rediculous.

no, i find it hard to believe (not rediculous) that you would see a child with ds in a different light though,

as you say, with no 100% proof...

I know I would think very hard before going on to carry a downs child full term, infact (And I am guessing this will make me unpopular) I would almost certainly choose to terminate if I knew my child was at high risk of being downs (forgive me if I am getting the terminolgy wrong).

just read india knight's response is she a mumsnetter?

But there are no absolutes are there?What if your NT child had meningitis,what if they were run over and suffered brain damage?Would you love them less?[ANGRY]

Sneakerpimp - I am certain I would terminate a foetus if I were told it had downs syndrome. I am. I'm sorry if that is not what you would do but it is what I would do. Sorry.

I'm not living my life worrying that future children or partners might get hit by a bus and suffer brain damage. I will cross those bridges if I come to them, but given that these tests are offered and there are options I can take if I want to I can't see why it should be an issue for you.

Agree with Hester re articles, neither very good. I am also with Beanieb-I would not have continued with my pregnancies if tests had indicated ds. Doesn't mean that I think others should do the same.

I have had the good fortune in my life to know a few families with children who have down's syndrome and I can honestly say that none of those families are 'damaged' in any way - wuite the opposite in fact! Very at some of the things that ignorant woman has said. I am sure I wouldn't think twice about keeping my unborn baby if I disovered he or she had down's syndrome because although I know there would be certain difficulties to face I also know there would be many wonderful times just like there is with any NT child.

oh am Emkana - your son is very beautiful!

The thing tht is upsetting is seeing that your child is perceived as a lesser person.I guess people look at dd and see the SN label.I just see my little girl.I see a little girl who has gradually learnt to walk.I see a little girl who is progressing with signing though she cannot speak.I see a little girl who plays with her dollies and teddies,OK maybe not like an NT child,but she still cuddles them and kisses theM(A big progression,she can now do a kissy noise!)I see a little girl who giggles in anticipation to tickles,I see a little girl who likes simple books,and drawing squiggles and who cuddles her brother and who is sometimes difficult and naughty and a little B%%%%%%%.I see a little girl!Mine,and I love her,though seemingly wider society sees her as worthless

I am technically of an age where this is more of a worry - and have no clue what I would do if I was told my baby had DS. I cannot possibly decide that unless I am in that position. I hope and pray I never am, I feel very sad for people who have to make a hard decision (whichever way it goes) but it should most certainly BE a personal decision. Only you know what you can (or can't) cope with - and even then you might be surprised.

I didn't have any screening done when pg with the DS's.....it's unlikely I'll have any more children (lack of adult male in the household makes that pretty unlikely ) - but if I did I would be at a higher risk because of my age - I still won't have any screening.

Yet another reason not to buy newspapers, her views make me sick, make me want to scream. Oh no life might be a little bit hard, people might not want to make you some kind of sex object when your older best not be born then.

Sneakerpimp - I am certain I would terminate a foetus if I were told it had downs syndrome. I am. I'm sorry if that is not what you would do but it is what I would do. Sorry.

you didnt just say that though, did you?

you said...

and I find it incredibly WEIRD that someone would want me to go through with such a pregnancy based upon the hypothetical chance that a child I might decide to keep might suffer brain damage or BE UGLY

That's just rediculous.

AND WHAT IF THAT CHILD WAS BEAUTIFUL?

regardless of their ability?

the very mention of your child being ugly makes me gag for all the wrong reasons,

come one,

would/could you really not love someone because of a fault of thier own?

I had the triple test with dd my first, because I was ignorant and it was an opt out kind of thing rather than an opt in thing. With ds in a different area it was a more opt in thing where you had to make an appointment etc, I think this is preferable, made me think a lot more anyway.

I didn't go for the triple test with ds, I reckoned that the 20 week scan would hopefully throw up anything life threatening (I know not 100%) but I also knew that I would and could not terminate for Ds and Sb.

As it happens I reckon ds did look a little ds at birth, and I clocked a few dr's mooching in and taking a good look at his palms etc.

It's hard because obviously Downs Syndrome has a whole spectrum of effects, some will be at the severe end some at the mild. I could not live with myself if I terminated for ds though, it's a totally personal decision.