What do you think of the 5% tax hike for those earning more than £150k - good or bad?

[soapbox]

????

I have nothing whatsoever against bankers, twinkle. Not at all. I have met some absolutely lovely ones, some of whom are real friends of mine. It's your political views I dislike, not your profession. I'm glad to hear that I was wrong about you not caring about other people though. Apologies for making that assumption.

Twinkle do you fundamentally disagree with the concept of redistribution of wealth then?

From your posts here it kinda sounds like you do.

I don't really see how you can chose to opt out of the NHS, the state school system and so on and then complain that you are not getting your money's worth.

Would you really move abroad and leave the country that has made you and your DH what you are just because you grudge paying tax you can well afford back into the system that we all benefit so much from?

I know this is only mumsnet but if the attitude of the very rich on this thread is representative than I honestly think that if they were to fuck off because they are too grasping and greedy to want to pay back into the system them we are better off without them.

Nobody, but nobody is irreplaceable.

However some people are clever greedy bastards and some people are just clever. I know who I would prefer to be amongst the top earners in this so called society.

LOL noonki. I will also not be mourning the loss of the super rich. switzerland is welcome to twinkle and her ilk

and yes I'm in favour of saving for stuff too. I actually think Britain is pretty rotten at its core. We have a culture which expects to be able to have whatever it wants on the never never (highest credit levels in Europe), one of the highest rates of home ownership (as that is peddled as 'made it' nirvana) and a celebrity culture in a place which is so small, most teenagers think they might make it.

People in the UK have been sold a future of fool's gold and I actually think this is wake up and smell the coffee time.

Regardless of income I am surprised that so many people here believe it is ok for anyone to pay pretty much 50% of their income in tax. Before those on lower income criticise they should consider how they would feel if they only got to 'take home' 50% of what they had worked so hard for.

Neither DH or I are bankers, but I am suggesting people consider that not everyone in this salary bracket is (as if it matters what work people do). Consider working for years to set up your own business which employs circa 200 people, the responsibility of ensuring those people get paid every month, having to work everyday of your life. Holidays are not simply a time to get away or be at home stress free in these circumstances, they involve e-mails and phone calls everyday and never taking your eye of the ball. Don't people who carry this level of responsibility and work this hard deserve some financial reward? I don't believe anyone, on any salary, would want to pay almost 50% tax (by the time you pay increased NI contributions too).

The whole move by Gordon Brown was very predictable, give to one section of soceity, and punish another long suffering group to pay for it. I also agree with posts above which state that most people earning £150k+ don't use the NHS, or state school system, and believe it is wrong there are no tax breaks for opting out of either.

I completely agree, abear.

It is quite apparent, from reading this thread, that many posters have absolutely NO CLUE about the level of responsibility and pressure that many high earners are under. Quite apart from the huge variety of skills they must master.

I think it's possible to appreciate the hard work done by and responsibility shouldered by high earners, and still think this tax rise is reasonable.

And besides, it has been said many times that it's not how hard you work, it's the value you add that counts. Or the opposite. Depending on the point being made...

... and sometimes individuals add value by working hard.

I don't think it is about how hard you work - that is a different matter to the responsibilities/skills you have and the value you add...

Lots of people work EXTREMELY hard but (sadly) don't actually achieve much. And some lucky buggers don't work very hard at all and achieve masses .

Wouldn't Twinkle and her dh have paid 40% tax on their bonuses already as well as on their earnings? She has paid the tax up front presumably....why should she want to pay more?

I don't think people have a problem paying tax if they can see some tangible benefit from it...schools, defence, NHS etc. However, it's the unaccountable way it's spent that irritates me and others and the unnecessary things it goes on - as has been mentioned on here already; ID cards; the new child database; IT systems that don't work; spin doctors; quangos, that all cost loads of money and seem not to benefit the great British taxpayer at all. If I knew that by paying more tax, NMC would get respite care and a feeding tube for her dd, then I'd gladly cough up. However, it's not people like NMC that will benefit from a hike in the rate that high earners pay.

We all want value for our money, and I don't feel that we are getting it with our taxes. We wouldn't use a business that consistently went over estimates and came back and asked us to bail it out, as it was spending money in unnecessary areas, so why should we be happy to do so with the Government?

Good points scary teacher.

And sometimes they don't abear. Or at least not value as it is used on this thread. The hard work argument is irrelevant. Or rather, it may be a reason why people dont want to pay a higher rate of tax, but not why they shouldn't.

So all the socialists on this thread would be happy paying a straight 50% of their income in tax?

I don't think we can or should equalise what everyone has. It would never work. Some of us will always be poor and some better off. It's just how things are and even if you attempt to equalise it via taxation that has never worked anywhere. I know we have more of a gap between rich and poor in the UK than some countries and indeed it's why people like the Rausings (Tetrapak) moved here from Scandinavia. If we put tax up people just move. I would genuinely move if rates were too high and a lot of what I do is via email anyway so could always move to near or even on my island and work from there to some extent but 45% tax won't drive me to that but it will certainly ensure I work very hard at ensuring I lawfully tax avoid much more strenuously to ensure I don't pay a penny more which isn't very hard to do if you're reasonably bright.

Xenia I would be more than happy paying 50% of any earnings over £150,000. It's not on all earnings now is it?

I think the point re working hard and adding value is that in many cases it is only by working hard that people build businesses up which then employ others, and add value to society. Would there be so many long established, successful British businesses and employers if everyone clocked off after a 7 - 8 hour day?

Yes, but many people work long hours and do not earn anything like that much (or indeed employ that many people). As many people have pointed out. Which is why working hard is irrelevant to this discussion.

Ok high earners, you are breaking my heart.

You get no holidays, you work in horrible conditions, you don't use the NHS or state schools and you are bountiful enough to provide your cleaners with cushy numbers.

However I am labouring under the assumption that you are not stupid. Do you not see that being highly taxed when you are rich and can afford to pay those taxes whilst maintaining a very nice quality of life cannot in any way be compared to paying high taxes when you only just get by.

Jesus twinkle. Judging by your posts, it's just as well it's your husband that earns the 150k. You can barely string a sentence together.

abear - there are a lot of people who have those responsibilities who earn less than that and an awful lot of people who have very little responsibility who earn an awful lot more. I know people who have earned over 150k in bonus alone. They don't have a lot of responsibility, just that banks were paying silly money a few years ago.

I still don't get why people are moaning about this when it's a lot less than most other countries in Europe. It's hardly like it leaves you on the breadline.

I am a higher rate taxpayer. And if they put my taxes up by 5% I wouldn't care.

I have heard people quote Kirstie Allsopp as some sort of qualified surveyor, they were genuinely quite shocked when I pointed out her husband is a property developer and Phil Spencer runs a relocation/development company and some even pointed out that gave them extra merit then, certainly hadn't occurred to them that K & P might have a vested interest.

Beachcomber - high earners aren't stupid .

If taxation is too high, people can't be bothered to work because the rewards for their labours become insufficient. That's all.

twinkle - re "The reason we are in this shit is because Bill Clinton pushed a bill through forcing banks to lower their lending criteria and this is why we have all this subprime debt ultimately."

I would put the blame for this crisis to another bill that Clinton pushed through: deregulation of credit markets at the end of 1999.

"Do you not see that being highly taxed when you are rich and can afford to pay those taxes whilst maintaining a very nice quality of life cannot in any way be compared to paying high taxes when you only just get by."

I don't think I understand the question. Would you explain it to me?

Some people on here are nasty selfish shits and the sooner they bugger off abroad the better. GOOD BLOODY RIDDANCE!