What do you think of the 5% tax hike for those earning more than £150k - good or bad?

[soapbox]

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Anna They arent low skilled jobs at all.They are jobs that require alot of skill.And effort.And compassion.It surprising how few people have these skills actually.But because they pay so poorly its rare to recruit the kinds of candidates that can do them properly.Therefore social care for example is in a total mess and its impossible to keep standards high.So people get abused and suffer.
'Their value to society is low'.That comment is a dreadful reflection on society today.But is sadly very true.

This will raise about £5 in extra tax revenue as anyone earnign that much can avoid tax quite easily.

However the message it gives out may make high earners leave Britain.

It is a ridiculous and pathetic idea imo

But not lecturers in other subjects, Anna. Or does anything other than business not count? And besides, not all business school lecturers are well paid...

But we all make decisions with regards to our careers, I could have not gone to university, become a care worker and had a throughly fullfilling life or I could have dragged my arse out of bed at 5am and worked in a soul destroying industry for 5 years knowing that I would earn good money as a result.
We all make choices and live by them, no use complaining you aren't paid what you're worth you knew that when you took that career path.

Scootini, their value is low as they don't generate money or work for others. That's why they don't pay well. Even highly-qualified jobs that don't generate money are relatively low paid when held against their 'professional equals' - eg NHS doctors vs lawyers/bankers/management consultants etc.

On page 28 of this you will see that the top 50% of taxpayers pay for 90% of income tax.

I will admit that I am in the top 10% of taxpayers. You will see that the top 10% of taxpayers contribute precisely 50% of the income collected.

The top 1% of taxpayers pay 22% of the income tax collected.

So there's already a significant burden already actually being borne by the (allegedly) rich.

lol at who would work 14 hours and do their own cleaning, my week days are often 14 hours and I do my own cleaning.

I also don't agree that people who earn the higher wage would not want to pay the higher tax rate. Until I took a pay cut I was in thr 40% bracket and would have happily paid more tax. Would happily pay up to 5o% tbh as I recognised that I had more than most.

I am a university lecturer, and I'm quite happy that I am paid what I am worth while educating the rest of you high-earners to go create wealth.

And I wouldn't dream in a million billion years of trying to claim I am worth more than the bloke who empties my bins, the nursery nurses who wipe my kids arse or the lady who makes tea for an ailing parent.

It's a spurious, vicious argument with no basis in ethics, only in fact. Why? Because some of us don't care about inequality and some of us do.

I did go to uni.And I do work in care.And I do get out of bed at 5 am every morning to go into work.I knew I would never be a millionaire.But I didnt bank on professions such as social care being so undervalued.By the government and by everyone else apparently

have to say Twinset that I only paid tax for the first time in YEARS this year and was quite proud to do so!

I really don't RESENT paying tax at all - do people REALLY feel that way?

Katie, when did you hear me complaining??!! I'm happy with what we earn. I have NO DESIRE to earn 150k. Honestly. My argument was with
Anna's argument that high skills + value automatically equals high salary. It doesn't.

Mummy Gorilla's post below explains it better for me, though - it's a very direct correlation - almost crude, isn't it? The fact that the money generators couldn't do it is they weren't kept relatively healthy, educated and safe doesn't seem to be factorerd in.

Twinset, I made that comment and clarified it. But the reality is if you work those hours and generate a huge salary, you DON'T go home a get the Marigolds on.

No morningpaper - people don't.

LOL at Swedes.

Wilf, you are wandering around the thread raging and I am not sure why.

Who on this thread has claimed to be a better human being than their bin man? No-one.

You asked for evidence that the small numbers of high earners (and not the collective horde of middle income earners) fund the rest?

I think I've supplied that, haven't I? The fact that the top 1% of income tax earners pay for 22% of the income tax bill is an interesting statistic ...

Scootini - exactly - I do hate the argument that often seems to be made that you earn more simply because you work harder. It's bollocks. I would rather stick pins in my eyes than work in the City - my choice, as kdd says, but let's please accept that unfairness does exist.

I also wouldn't have a problem with my dh paying 5% extra tax. I don't think many high earners would. I agree that certain jobs are extremely undervalued. Scootini do you think everyone should earn the same then?

In principle I dont.But when I look at my payslip and see how much has gone and what that means for me and my family I do.Because it feels hard to work all hours, pay alot for someone else to look after my kids so I can go to work, (because we need the small amount I make after child care to live on),have a not great (but admittedly not the worst) quality of life and to not really feel like I have even a say in where my tax is going sometimes.
I guess I am also a bit jaded because as part of my work I see the people who have never worked but always seem to have the big Tellies, money for nights out and new clothes.And I see the old people who have saved liked mad only to have it all gone in 4 months because they have to pay for their own care at £500 a week.And I wonder who the mugs are sometimes
I hate that I sometimes think like this.But I do.

mummygorrilla - I am in that earning bracket and believe me i do come home sometimes and put my marigolds on! And yes I work horrendously long hours too!
I dont mind paying the extra tax really as long as it is directed correctly and helps the people who genuinely need the help.

I agree Mummygorilla and I have had cleaners in the past but not because I worked long hours ( infact when I had a cleaner I did not work} but because I had a high level of disposable income and would rather give some of it away than get in the marigolds. It is not something to be ashamed or embaressed about. if I could afford a cleaner now I would do but it is not a necessity it would be a luxury.

I never said my dh deserves his earnings more than anyone else, just that he deserves it. Yes probably care workers and bin men should earn more but are you saying some people shouldn't earn more than them? Are they on call 24/7 for example having to go away and leave their families for weeks on end?

Quattro,what DO the top one percent earn?

I am not raging, I am cheering

Thanks QC. Facts. I like those.

Here's some more:

The top 10% (not even 50%) of earners in the UK earn gross earnings of 976 per week (according to the Government at www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285) Which comes out at a shade under 50k a year.

To be in the top 1%, one only ('only! Listen to me...) has to earn over 100k a year...

Which means, actually, that the vast bulk of contributors to the 78% of the tax burden are people earning UNDER 100k a year; and 50% of the tax burden is being provided for by all those earning less than 50k a year.

I'd hardly call this the public sector being propped up by the very very richest...

OK, I'll accept (grudgingly) that 22% is a reasonable slice. But the notion of a bunch of layabouts lower down the income scale is wrong too.

I am glad most people do not begrudge their taxes. I can remember the first time I paid tax, about 15 years ago now and I felt very proud.

Someone did say quite early in the thread that the only people who support the rise are those who don;t earn the cash.

No I dont think everyone should earn the same.But I wish that work such as social care (and of course I am biased) was paid fairly and was valued as it should be.

Societies where everyone is paid equally dont work do they?But then neither is what we have now really...so who knows what the answer is?Not me.Im going to watch Spooks

Not so. I crossed the higher tax threshold without a moan and would do so again because it is a small proportion of the extra income I earn as I've moved up the pay ladder.

I consider myself pretty lucky to earn it. And to live in a place where my kids can get free healthcare and education.

Hang on Wilf, the bottom 50% of the population (that's half, you know) contribute precisely 10% of the total income tax bill.

Not that I want to term the bottom half as a bunch of layabouts (those were your words) but they ain't paying much tax ...