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Argh, this is why I'll never vote Conservative

135 replies

HeadFairy · 29/09/2008 07:48

poor loves can't be the main bread winners and it's our fault!

OP posts:
HeadFairy · 29/09/2008 15:04

why do men have to be the main breadwinner anyway? My mum has earned more than my dad for at least 25 years, he's never complained. Quite the opposite, he's benefited very nicely.

OP posts:
HeadFairy · 29/09/2008 15:05

you said it much better than me WW... Why is the answer to men's underachievement to put down those who do achieve?

OP posts:
artichokes · 29/09/2008 15:07

I'm with CatIsSleepy. Does DW have a solution? If not then what on earth was the point of raising this?

Bloody Hell. Who is one meant to vote for nowadays?

Dottoressa · 29/09/2008 15:38

Winky - do women like to provide? And if so, in what way?

Personally, I like to provide comfort, meals, clean towels and my general all-day presence for the children. I have no desire to provide financially for the family!

Of course some women would think otherwise. However, I think as a general rule (probably not true with MNers on the whole, most of whom have been educated to have jobs - including me, so I'm not sure what happened there), men are genetically programmed to provide materially, and women are genetically programmed to provide in other ways. I think DW is just saying that lots of men are not getting the chance to do what would otherwise come naturally to them, and that men often get a raw deal nowadays. Like so much else, this is of course mangled in the papers in the hope of provoking this kind of debate!

(There could well be an anti-Tory plot at work, too...)

artichokes · 29/09/2008 15:51

How might this be an anti-Tory plot? AS a rule the Torygraph tends not to be the leader in spreading anti-Tory lies.

CatIsSleepy · 29/09/2008 15:56

Telegraph in anti-tory plot shocker!
it's an interesting idea...

Romy7 · 29/09/2008 16:01

genetically programmed? as in x or y chromosome? as in i have breasts so i provide milk? i have a womb so i provide babies?
not as in i have a brain so i choose what to do with my life?
mners can't be exempt from 'genetic programming' - or are we talking about cultural programming? surely education and gener=tic programming are completely different?
i need a lie down now.

Romy7 · 29/09/2008 16:02

genetic lol

ScottishMummy · 29/09/2008 16:04

Dottoressa LOL what a funny post!you are being ironic,right genetic predisposition towards provision and nurturing and providing

women have the fluff and fold gene
men have the go to safeway gene

CatIsSleepy · 29/09/2008 16:07

LOL @ MNers being differently genetically programmed

I like that idea
what on earth have Carrie, Justine et al been up to?

Swedes · 29/09/2008 16:08

I thought Bridget Jones was a boozy, faggy 30 something who was desperate to find a man?

FioFio · 29/09/2008 16:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ScottishMummy · 29/09/2008 16:11

i provide clean towels,meals and work ft and provide financially.no gentic desire to provide in "other ways"

stick to being a happy outta the house wage slave- thanks

Peachy · 29/09/2008 16:20

Oh FGS- not that I expected any better from him.

I am a graduate with no immense desire (bar avoiding bankruptcy) to ever return to the labour market; however I will defend to the death my right to do so as an equal human being.

I will of course have to go back to work- as my poor DH wants to go to Uni- well got to redress that balance!

Remotew · 29/09/2008 16:38

Gosh have I woken up in the 1950's. Just read Dottoressa's post.

I reckon that's what they are trying to say. How dare women earn enough money to support themselves and their families so can afford to be choosy who they shack up with. If this wasn't the case we would have to have a man to provide for us.

I frankly fear for my DD's future and family life as a single mum if the Tories get in to power.

motherinferior · 29/09/2008 16:55

Personally, as someone devoid of a Y chromosome, I feel no biological drive whatsoever towards the provision of clean towels.

I do also quite madly like bringing in a bit of money. Am clearly a transman in cleverly concealed disguise.

3littlefrogs · 29/09/2008 17:06

I haven't read the whole thread, but I have been bleating for years about the fact that the whole education system in this country is female dominated and female orientated, particularly at primary level.

Boys start formal education far too young, with not enough time spent learning basic social behaviour/communication skills etc.

There are very few good male role models in primary education. There are lower expectations of boys generally in education.
In parts of this country there are whole communities of families without fathers.

Add to that, the increasing realisation that the life of a teenaged boy is the least valued in our society. Look at all the violent deaths we have had in london alone this year.

I have 2 sons - they, and their friends, have been violently attacked and robbed numerous times. This is not a priority for the police where I live. The boys are very much aware that it is not a priority in spite of all the political claptrap that is spouted every time a boy is murdered.

I think it is tough being a teenaged boy these days. I worry about the present generation and how they are going to grow up.

I have a daughter too, and I am afraid I do think that in many ways her life will be easier.

DrNortherner · 29/09/2008 17:09

3littlefrogs that makes me very as the mum of a gorgeous, happy ds.

There are some wonderful, clever, caring, powerful men out there somewhere.....

Remotew · 29/09/2008 17:23

There are some wonderful, clever, caring, powerful men out there somewhere.

I wish I knew where they were all hiding, probably been snapped up, as I would give up my single life for one. Then men I generally meet are low achievers. Not that I'm a high flyer far from it but I want an equal.

I saw many promising boys whom I was at school with end up with no ambitions. Some made a good life when they met a sucessful woman.

I agree that early education is dominated by female teachers and boys need male role models.

However I don't think we should be critising sucessful girls or making it harder for them to go into higher education and forge careers as a solution to the problem.

CountessDracula · 29/09/2008 17:26

omg for the first time ever today I thought I will vote Tory
In an appalling moment of nimbyism following the announcement that they would cancel the third runway at Heathrow

PortAndLemon · 29/09/2008 18:12

Yeah, right they would. With the CBI in favour of a third runway, a Tory government would so cancel it. Mind you, when that happens the skies will instead be full of flying pigs so I doubt you'd be better off.

solidgoldbrass · 29/09/2008 18:13

Dotoressa: bullshit, sorry. If being submissive and doing all the shitwork with a smile was genetically linked with having ovaries and tits then there would be no women fighting for their rights to be full human beings rather than appendages. It wouldn't be a fight. You don't have to mount big propaganda campaigns to tell people to shit, or to breathe.

Those of you who haven't should rea the Feminine Mystique (published in the 50s) where there is a whole chapter dedicated to how, in the aftermath of world war 11 there was a lot of concern about inadequate men and unhappy marriages etc, and the solution was to wreck women's education, insist that whatever degree course they were taking was dumbed down and included a lot of crap about servicing men better - and then the problems got worse, and worse, and worse: men even more useless, children less self-reliant than ever before etc.

Dottoressa · 29/09/2008 19:46

"There are some wonderful, clever, caring, powerful men out there somewhere..... "

Indeed! I am married to one.

However, he's a lot older than me, which may be explained by the fact that younger men have been so thorougly emasculated

Some of my comments are made (almost) in jest, but I do actually believe that DW's comments have been distorted and taken out of context, even by the Torygraph (which I get on a daily basis). The Torygraph does have its own line in Conservatism, and it does sometimes have its tongue in its cheek (that's not a very nice image somehow). If DW means to say - as I believe he does - that men and boys are on a bit of a downer at the moment, then I think he is quite right. As a mother of a boy and a girl, I am very keen to ensure that my son becomes and remains a decent, well educated and responsible human being, and it does worry me that boys are constantly being given the message that they are useless compared to girls!

ScottishMummy · 29/09/2008 19:50

LOL genetic predisposition to domesticity!hail the J-Cloth wielding queen of schlock fluff and fold your genetic template,your species uber-female

sfxmum · 29/09/2008 19:51

what I am finding sad is that this government is in serious trouble, yet the Tory party resorts to wild electioneering with half baked populist ideas instead of a cogent economic plan
wouldn't the country be ready to listen?

actually strike that, business as usual it is then