Daily Mail take on ADHD - 'badly behaved boys need discipline not drugs'

[tortoiseshell]

Article here - I'm posting the link a little tentatively, as it is not a good article - typical DM bile I think!

Personally I welcome debate but only if its reasoned and informed otherwise whats the point?

"If I'm honest, though, I don't believe that these children are ill. I think they come from insecure, unstable backgrounds where the concept of a bedtime is as fanciful as the fairy tales they've never been read.
I believe that many of the children labelled with ADHD and drugged into acquiescence are simply youngsters who have been raised without any boundaries."

Paranoid2 - I also have twin DSs (age 6). One is very hyper (LITERALLY bouncing off the walls), no concentration (very behind at school) and very violent (other twin has scars from his attacks) although he is very funny and his classmates put up with him because of that. The other twin is TOP of his class, very calm and kind and no real trouble (except when I have to drag him away from the TV/computer). So go figure - they obviously live in the same loving, secure household with both parents, have the same diet (mostly organic, no aspartame/msg with occasional sweets)and get TWO fairytales read to them every night. There have been times that I have really wanted him to go on ritalin (my GP did refer him to the child behavioural unit for an assessment but we got a letter back saying they did not accept the referral, he is seeing an educational psychologist though)and my sister (who had two DSs on ritalin keeps going on at me to get him some)but as a mum who hates giving DCs calpol and spends hours in the supermarket reading labels on food, I can't do it.

Before I had my TDSs, I would have agreed that a lot of behavioural problems are environmental but I saw with my own eyes that some kids are born like this (I first noticed problems with DS at about 13 months although he was a constant screamer since birth). So to all those smug mothers with darlings DCs, think yourself lucky and give the parents of 'problem' kids a break!

Referring back to a comment made earlier about diet i also agree that it has an impact. I remember seeing a documentary earlier this year about a teenager with ADHD who was out of control and he was having a chocolate bar and a can of coke for breakfast which seemed complete madness to me.

DS was assessed 4 years ago for food intolerance and we now avoid all refined sugars, artificial colours and certain preservatives. He has a really healthy diet with very little junk food or ready meals. He also started taking fish oils at this time. All the different things we have addressed with him have had a positive impact to some extent but they, like medication, are not a cure all.

My impression is that the type of parents on MNET that have children with ADHD will already be the type to be trying different diets, behavioural techniques. Despite their problems these kids are actually the lucky ones to have such involved and attentive parents.
That said the children I work with in the care syspem are often living entirely chaotic lifestyles with little consideration given to their welfare never mind their diets. I think for this group of children we have to seriously look at whether they are just being diagnosed and medicated for convenience.

Ok so a question

Ritalin, as far as I am aware is prescription yes?

Now, presumably all these doped up kids have it prescribed, so the issue may often not be with the parent who could well be just taking medical asdvice?

Is the issue here- if there is one- over subscribing Paeds as opposed to doping parents?

When I had ds2 a baby a hv suggested I see a gp to get someting to help ds1 (about 15 monthso sleep through. I didn't of course (i obv didnt know he was sn either)- but was a bit at the hv!

Litchic does have a point - I often remember moondog sayig how many parents oppose statements; don't get it though. Those parents are unlikely to id themselves asw the sn lot here are they?

Course there are socioeconomic factors. Some of these kids will have shite parents, some none. But even ten is more complex: I used to wonder if ds1's lack of social skills was because I have bad shyness- no, but that bad shyness could well be a genetic trait leading to is asd. Likewise parents of adhd kids are preumably likely to have been undiagnosed adhd themselves? and therefore find settling at a job, relationship whatever hard? Would seem likely- yes?

Once my friend's DS was diagnosed with ADHD, her H was too.

IIRC, her DS (8) was given the choice to have the medication at weekends or not. He chose to take it as he prefers how he feels when taking it.

dustystar
ditto with my boy. Diet made a huge change.

But then that takes the whole is it real' thing a stage further.
Because while some will not believe that DS2 can be aggressive, depressive, emotional and defiant ( and self harming too) if he eats stuff he can't tolerate - I then get the other people who do not believe that additives and diet can affect his behaviour
so I get people at his SN school thinking that a doughnut won't hurt and I have a wailing child who is upset and can't sleep for two days....

In my view you should just have to pick your biggotry early and stick to it.

a perfect storm of twattery.

VS at your senco. She should qualify for some sort of prize.

Thats a really good point peachy. The medical profession is still lagging behind with the idea of treating the whole person taking account of environemental and social influences. Its the legacy of the bio-medical model that has dominated the medical profession for decades. Thankfully this is changing slowiy but all too often busy Gps will simply prescribe a pill for a variety of problems like depression rather than offer a more comprehensive treatment that took into account lifestyle or incorporated therapy.

Litchick
I take your point. And I do remember the mum turning up to pick up her DS from nursery with a huge take thingy away of coke.

I think it is the idea that parents can't be bothered that i find difficult to accept as a common theme. I have never met the parents of a child with SN who wasn't doing their very best. That best is of course a movable feast but isn't it more commonly lack of resources, understanding, research etc rather than indifference?

Genuine question as I hate stereotyping a bout parents that is based in indifference from the 'sling a batch of pills dowen their throats to shut them up' through to the 'get a nanny and ignore them'.
Don't the majority of parents do the best they know how?

daftpunk, you seem to have several opinions that differ from TheSuburbanDryad's.

Firstly you have the opinion that ADHD is "a made up condition".

Then you have the opinion that, actually, in 1% of cases it isn't a made-up condition.

Then you apparently don't have either of those opinions any more, because all you are trying to say is that maybe there are alternative ways to treat children's behaviour without giving them drugs.

And these opinions are based on -- what? You've referenced the son of your "very good friend" (this would be the sort of "very good" friend who you think drugs her children because she fancies an easy life?) but nothing else.

I don't have a child with ADHD. I do have a very lively and boisterous DS who would be a complete nightmare if he didn't get lots of physical exercise -- the sort who really really needs to climb trees or run on beaches or whatever. But that's a very different thing from a child with ADHD. DS can concentrate when he wants (and can actually concentrate better than most of his peers, if he puts his mind to it); a child with ADHD can't (to over-simplify).

I suspect it is over-diagnosed, and drugs over-prescribed, in the US, where everything seems to be medicalised. Parents tend to have to fight for a diagnosis for their SN children in the UK even when there's a clear problem so I'd be surprised if that were such an issue here, although Peachy (as always) makes some very good points.

pagwatch, your comment "because while some will not believe that DS2 can be aggressive, depressive, emotional and defiant (and self harming too) if he eats stuff he can't tolerate - I then get the other people who do not believe that additives and diet can affect his behaviour" applies to my DS2 in spades.

The specialist paediatrician at the allergy-related asthma clinic has just prescribed him some medication containing aspartame, despite his notes clearly stating that he cannot tolerate it.

' I then get the other people who do not believe that additives and diet can affect his behaviour'

why do they do that? its like they thibk you do it for fun or trendiness- madonna is intolerant to dairy so I must be too. And the boys.

Er, no- we get the shits if we have milk. Not a good look.

But there's always someone who doesn't take it seriously.

Now if I suggest at the PTA meething that I get photographed with my pants off wearing a conical bra and sell it in a book as a fundraiser, that's a Madonna obsession.*

Not wantng stomach cramps is not.

• not a good look- I should be encased in as many layers as possible LOL!

** no idea why Madonna can't stck her

nobel twat prize

I am sad. Out at the shops this morning I was mentally drawing up twat diagnostic criteria.
Slightly less sad to come back and find that others have done so too

Peachy

I am strangely aroused

Someone commented earlier about ADHD etc just being a group of behaviours that is labelled (or something like that) Thats true in a way but that doesn't mean that those behaviours, when they appear together in this way, are not a sign of an underlying physiological condition. At the moment observational techniques are about all there is available to help diagnose these conditions. Its not like they can do a blood test.

Ds behaviour used to seem completely nonsensical and unpredictable. When he first started school and it became apparent that there was more going on than him just being a rather lively 4 year old I was very resistant to the idea that he had AS or ADHD although both were mentioned to me by the various professioanls involved with his assessments.

A year later though, after lots of research and observation, I had begun to accept that he was on the autistic spectrum. The thing that really convinced me was that when i viewed him as an NT child his behaviour made no sense and was unpredictable but when i view him as a child with AS it suddenly started to make sense and we were able to predict his behaviour. Also using strategies designed to help children with AS and ADHD were the most successful in producing the desired behaviour.

The parents at DS's school who show HUGE signs of food intolerance mostly still get the sweets etc.
It is not because their parents don't care . It is because - as one said to me- " when I feed him up it is the only time he looks really happy"

Of course what she can't understand is that the rest ofthe time he is probably feeling crap because of what she has fed him. But she loves him desperately and the whole diet thing is very challenging.
She has recently started meds because he is getting too big for her to cope with him. It is tragic .

"Now if I suggest at the PTA meething that I get photographed with my pants off* wearing a conical bra and sell it in a book as a fundraiser, that's a Madonna obsession."

This must surely be a contender for quote of the week.

pmsl Pag

lol I agree CT

Just because it's in the DM doesn't mean it's untrue.

There's a v good article here:

www.theecologist.org/pages/archive_detail.asp?content_id=621

Have a feeling that link won't work, but it does if you paste it in!!