Daily Mail take on ADHD - 'badly behaved boys need discipline not drugs'

[tortoiseshell]

Article here - I'm posting the link a little tentatively, as it is not a good article - typical DM bile I think!

I caught the back end of this discussion on Jeremy Vine the other day. The guy was a total prick, saying things like "the reasons these boys, and its mostly boys, are like this is because they are being brought up by women, so clearly they don't understand that boys will be boys" among other things that nearly made me lauch my paint roller out of the window in fury and i don't even have a child with ADHD . I then laughed out loud when JV said, and thank you to our guest bla bla bla from the daily mail, in fact i laughed so much i nearly fell off the ladder. Especially as my DD was busy pinging paint all over the floor, quick i thought, get an educational psychologist she needs doping up.

I often wonder about this sort of thing, is it a case that those "naughty little boys" from my childhood actually had ADHD or were they just naughty little boys. Or is it a case that some, especially middle class mothers cannot stand the thought of having a naughty child as it will reflect badly on their parenting so look for a medical "excuse". I would say that there is an element, albeit small, of truth in both of these statements so it completely blows his argument out of the water then doesn't it. Also, I would hope that there is a tight criteria that has to be met, as such, before a diagnosis of ADHD is offered and drugs prescribed, i suspect that this is actually the case. Interestingly, i was looking on a dyspraxia website (i think my DD my be dyspraxic to a degre as she ticks lots of the boxes) that children with dyspraxia were simply labelled clumsy and disruptive. Thats the thing isn't it, the more we learn about biology, the more we learn that some things are due to our make up and not simply a result of "bad parenting", i imagine that autistic children were labelled quite horribly as "weird" etc in years past. Thankfully now it is recognised as a medical condition. I am pretty sure my DP is dyslexic but he wont have it as it was never picked up at school - um, inner london borough school some thirty odd years ago, hardly likely!

One woman, a nursery nurse no less, had the audacity to text the program and say that a lot of people put their children on ritalin to get extra money - i kid you not.

As someone who is currently taking citalopram for anxiety, i certainly wouldn't want my child taking a behaviour modifying drug, BUT if she had ADHD and these things made her life easier/happier then i would give them to her. I don't think any parent wants drugs for their children, any more than we are happy to give long term anti biotics etc, but what else can you do. I don't know what ritalin does actually and would think it would be really sad if it simply dulled down hyperactive children. I would hope, like the citalopram does for me, it "tweaks" things to allow them to get on with their lives. I would imagine if they are naughty they will continue to be so though. Im waffling.

peachy;

i understand what you're saying...but educate me here, ...how do you know whether a child has adhd, or is just "a handful" (for want of a better phrase)...and i'm not talking about a child that has other conditions as well, ie; autism..i'm talking just adhd....how do doctors/teachers/ tell the difference?

dp I dont have a child with adhd but at 3 it was thought ds1 might have- later found to be asd.

I think the thing is that when you see a chil in context with other children some do stand out. the dx may not be a given but there are differences. I do remember a cild who was at pre-school where it was eminently obvious he had adhd; he was a loving, kindly child but was always on edge. It wasn't a case of not being still- it was never being stil: other kids would immerse in something at least sometimes- even ds3 (not talking until 4) could be entertained by the production of a pc. This kid just couldnt apply himself. He ended up in a sn school against the wises of his carers which I am still about.
For some reason the parents can accept ds3 (obviously disabled, 1st centile for speech etc) but not this child because they also believed he was 'just' a naughty child.

I rather liked him: if you accepted hm for who he was, he was a joy. I miss him but is carer was so traumatised she wont talk to anyone from school now- don't think she realalised we'd had issues with school too, looking back the sn carers group a friend is planning to combat school failings might well have made the difference here.

There is another thing: parental instinct. More valuable than given credit for! At a week we knew ds1 was 'different'- we thought a genius but hey- pfb!

'One woman, a nursery nurse no less, had the audacity to text the program and say that a lot of people put their children on ritalin to get extra money - i kid you not'

I actually believe every dm reader should be issued wth a copy of the dla form! its such a nightmare that I have decided to forego obviously-entitled-to mobility for ds3 rather than face it again.

I ad a similar comment from ds3's TA; I showed her the form (the welsh copy lol, only spare I had)- nver heard it again!

daftpunk, teachers/medical professionals are used to dealing with all number of children. They have ways and means of dealing with children that are just 'handfuls'. When the normal routes don't work then other things are considered, one of which will be a neurological disorder, like ADHD.

But, as many people have said, children with ADHD often have other problems entwined so they aren't just 'naughty' but noticeably different.

Many ADHD sufferers have behavioural problems around 60% of ADHD sufferers have defiant behaviour, fighting and not doing what they are told, purposely wind other people up and around 30% have problems with conduct, which means they lie or steal or break rules etc.

Plus around 25-30% have a learning difficulty such as dyslexia, around 25% have anxiety disorders and the same amount again have severe depression.

So it's not just the ADHD that is noticed, but other problems entwined with it, which are also flagged up, leading to investigation.

DS1 is and has always been very, very active. He jiggles his legs, bangs against things, flaps his hands, finds it hard to sit still for any length of time without jiggling. When he was younger he was always 'on the go', he was quite impulsive, very talkative.

But here's the thing, I can then compare him to a boy I know with ADHD and I see these differences:

He can read a book, and finish it. He can concentrate in class without having to jump out of his seat and walk around the room. He doesn't melt down and throw things. He doesn't see a wall and try to throw himself off it. He can play a board game and take his turn. He can wait in a queue at the supermarket. He can listen to a conversation and wait for his to join in. He can listen.

yes peachy, someone on the radio made a similar point. I think it is disgusting that people like you who are clearly entitled are not given this as a matter of course, surely a dx and degree of dx should be enough without making you jump through hoops. I can't imagine there are many parents who go, "yay, DC have SN now i can get extra money"

"I actually believe every dm reader should be issued wth a copy of the dla form! " I actually think that every DM reader should be stripped of their rights to an opinion on anything until they commit never to read that rag full of shit again.

pmsl

they'd all just move to the express and start banging on about Lady Di instead

sadly though one oster here- jenk- had a relative who wanted her daughter to get cp for te cas - there are wankers everywhere!

I think the system would work if dla employed poeple with knowledge of sn rather than lackies who routinely refuse every application to see who has the energy to fight.

I never applied for either child until I had been told to by the Paed- but some people have to fight the Paed to get it.

my experience is that people have to be persuaded that a diagnosis will help. For many it is so hard to admit that their child has issues.

I have read on so many SN websites people who will clutch at any straw to avoid it . People almost seem to feel that it will change their child somehow.
I can't tell you how often I have seen people post a "thank goodness" type post when they have persuaded themselves that their childs issues are not Adhd ASD or any kind of disorder. There have been several on here recently. Just skim behaviour and see the fear from parents questioning if their child may have such a condition.

I have no doubt that some parents leap on SN as an excuse for bad behaviour but I have never seen it - only the total opposite

How could you want anyone to have a disability like that?

I'd give up my womb (major for me, littlemissbroody lol!) or my sight for DD not to have Dyspraxia and hers isn't even that severe!

pagwatch, I 'convinced' myself that DD's dyspraxia was just left-handedness, and that she was just a clumsy child. I said as much to Peachy and Scorpio on our postnatal thread when the issue came up and just kept my head buried.

I think there is a horrlbe ethos that considers that anyone who is on benefit is a scrounger and on the make. The staff in these places have that drummed into them in the induction i'm sure. A friend of mine once did some temporary work in a benefits office and she was saddened by this attitude towards people with genuine need, but but the amount of people who just expected things to be laid in their laps. So i guess its swings and roundabouts.

Maybe the DM and DE are tools used by the government to brainwash society into becoming complient curtain twitching automatons. You can imagine a world where people stop on the street utter things like "disgusting, of course its all the immigrants/single parents fault" and then moving on to the next person repeating the same phrase. A bit like stepford wives but even more sinister.

I have actually seen it but this kids problems at home are huge- mum mentally ill, no dad for first 5 years. I love the kid to bits and itc clear e'd love to be one of a big family like ours .

Indeed Mum managed (no she wasnt at work) to miss another school play today- but its me he looks for now for a smile. So sad. Mum wont let him visit here (dh told her off for allowing hiom to hit another child and not responding- other child badly hurt) but i'd take him like a shot!

He does have behavioural issues which she variously attributes to asd / adhd / dyslexia (I know he ahs been cleared for all, she told me).

His bg issue is his mums illnesss but isnt that in some ways just as disabling for the child as a dx? Its not as if he can change it at 8, is it?

VS

oh god I know VS. When DS2 turned into the screaming biting child from hell in a few short weeks I was absoloutley convinced that it was because I was a terrible mum. The guilt was hideous.
It is a serious adjustment to look at your child in terms that are regarded as 'imperfect' or 'not normal'. Fortunately we do get those reality glasses pretty quickly where we realise that our kids are perfect - just the world is a bit fucked up.

Have you actually googled any womb swap sites? I am not sure you could swap for dyspraxia correction but you might get a nice handbag ?

I tried doing the whole swapping my soul bit but apparently God wasn't interested.

I agree totally pagwatch, i just meant that there will always be an element within society that will want to jump on that bandwagon. Thankfully in the minority, i actually know of a woman who tells everyone her child has ADHD and he has never even been within spitting distance of an assesment.

VS, my DD does tick alot of the boxes for dyspraxia but she does seem quite dexterous and really good at drawing, people have commented on it as she draws really well for a three year old. That is what makes me think she doesn't have it. She is pretty much ambidextrous although now favours her left hand. Never crawled, walked late, has slight speech delay, short attention span - i have put it to the back of my mind as i am an over anxious parent. She is starting play school soon, ive not mentioned it too them, should i or should i wait and see if they come to me?

peachy; vs;

thank you for taking the time to reply, .......and sorry if i was a pain yesterday.

Same here, VS! But as you know from other threads in SN, DD1's dyspraxia is pretty bad .

Dp equially thanks for taking the time to listen.

trust me, I appreciate that

I don't know LEM. I was totally convinced that when I asked DD's teacher if she had considered dyspraxia that she would say 'Oh, no, not DD, she's just X' but she didn't. She said straight away that she had thought about it and was considering mentioning it to the SENCO. She also advised me to speak to my GP (probably because she knows their SENCO is a twat) so I went to the GP who got me a referral to a paed (who saw her really quickly because he was about to go leave).

From what I can gather I've had a pretty easy ride of it, with most people it takes forever. DD's teacher and I only thought about it a couple of weeks before the school holidays and she is already on the waiting list for the occ.therapist.

Maybe go see your GP? and just flag it up with her teachers that you have noticed certain things like short attention span etc. With SN they don't have to have all of the symptoms, Dd's was pretty much unnoticed because she is top of the class so learning disabilities weren't even considered, plus she is left-handed so naturally messier/more clumsy, also she has no 'obvious' behavioural issues, with her it's more that she doesn't behave badly because she is quite emotionally detached than anything else(and there I was thinking I was a perfect parent and she was just good ) However as soon as she saw the Paed he said she has severe fine motor problems. I don't think it would have been picked up for quite a while if I hadn't mentioned it so I'd definitely say something to someone. After all, if you're wrong it doesn't matter, if you're right but don't get it flagged it might.

I wish I'd been able to join this yesterday when it was in full flow. This sort of article makes me so angry, but phrases like "chemical cosh", "zombie", "doped up" prove that the person saying it has absolutely no idea what life is like for the family with ADHD.

The reality of life with a child with ADHD is:
-a conversation aged 5/6 "what would you like for your birthday?" "a rifle so I can shoot you with it" (to DH)

• thumping your younger brother in the nose in the back of the car for no reason at all

• hours and hours of evenings spent sitting at the top of the stairs to stop him coming out of his room, to find out years later that he actually didn't need so much sleep.

• a very unhappy little boy who tells you he'd rather be dead "so I won't cause any more trouble"

• being told by "experts" you are bad parents and it is clearly because of your parenting (when you have 3 other children who are ok..)

and the very worst..

• getting frantic calls at work from the pastoral teacher in Y7 who tells you he has been passed a suicide note written by your DS and given to his friend (who luckily had the sense to give it to his mother who also had the sense to contact the school) and having to go and get him (I never want to experience that again)

I taught a little boy last year who had a diagnosis of ADHD who was about as far removed from being a 'naughty boy' as you could get. He was nervy, anxious, easily distracted etc but also incredibly polite and well behaved. These stereotypes of naughty boys make me so .But that's exactly what they are - stereotypes.

tallulah, that is such a sad story - i hope you are getting all the help you deserve. At least your LO has a wonderful mummy to look out for him.

Thanks VS. I would wonder if my doctor would poo poo my concerns as i have health anxiety. I will certainly keep an eye on things, as you say, its never cut and dry is it. I have to admit i have worried less in some ways and more in others. DD does have a short attention span for some things, but for others (making stuff, cutting and sticking) she will do for hours, its the more directed stuff she struggles with. She can do jigsaws etc, but her friends can do them much more quickly, she can ride a bike, her friends can't (i know that is a big deal becaus\e of the midline stuff), she can draw proper drawings, her friends can't, she can't make herself fully understood with her speech. My HV said to me that she suspected she would be dyslexic, but at 18m im not sure she should have said anything. My DP is very poor at reading and spelling and i suspect he is dyslexic. Who is to say.

My friend has a little boy, he is just lovely (and im more of a girl person) he has been assessed by a peadiatrician, i suspect for ASD but im pretty sure they said watch and wait, it could be maybe that he has ADHD, i wonder. He does the whole hitting for no reason, ive watched him and i don't know where it comes from. But in him i don't see a naughty little boy, a very complicated little boy who is intelligent beyond his years - he is three and can read, he can name any car make and model that you point out to him and do word searches!! His mother is as far removed from Chavvy as you can get, clearly highly intelligent, and totally devoted to her little boy. He and my DD tend to be partners in crime at play group - very sweet, but the group leaders get quite uptight about it, i can't understand why they have to sit still at singing time and why they can't let him run around between the tables but they always insist on trying to get him to sit still, even moved snack time. didn't do any good, especially when my DD was there egging him on