Shock! Gordon isn't dreadful- Labour have improved this country imo

[mrsruffallo]

I thought that his speech was great, he seems very sincere, intelligent and caring
Is the media induced hate campaign having an influence on us all?

I used to see GB when I worked at the Commons (Labour in Opposition them). Honeslty, hes not sulky - he is quite friendly - not at all as he comes across.

Gordon's conference speech just more Liebour spin.

well, this cabinet minister (very famous might I add) was at my wedding.

ha. beat that!

I was only working iin the Library!! I'm not claiming intimate knowledge (oh er ). I always liked him though.

Screw loose? But, sure thats part of the job description innit? In what way screw loose?

agree Elliott - as a long standing Lib Dem supporter I am disgusted at their volte-face on taxation. As it happens, their presence in my constituency has always been token, so I've voted for the Labour MP there, a principled, old-school Labour man.
I also feel that Gordon Brown gets a rotten press for being too dour and lacking media-pleasing twinkle.
And yes, Labour have made huge improvements on many family-friendly issues in the past ten years...but overall, I find I trust and respect politicians less and less as the general elections roll past. All the current lot are devious and obsessed with PR rather than substance.

I was a lib dem too- was asked to stand locally until some of their latest ideas and Nick Clegg- no chance

returning to Labour, no way will I vote Conservative, this recession is going to cause greater reliance on the benefits for many- deffon not a time for Cameron!

IT's sad isn't it? I'm not sure whether I'm just getting old and cynical or whether things really have got a lot more superficial. I never would have believed that I would become one of those ' can't be bothered to vote, they all seem just the same ' types...

Me neither elliott I am in my 40s and have voted in every single council and general election since I turned 18. Just lately I feel they are all a bunch of charlatans.

This thread started being about Gordon but has morphed into new Labour.

The good stuff
(i) National minimum wage
(ii) Civil partnerships
(iii) Devolution
(iv) Peace in Northern Ireland
(v) Less pensioner poverty
(vi) Improvements in primary school educational standards

The bad stuff
(i) Massive increases in stealth taxation
(ii) Uncontrolled spending in the NHS which has not proved to be value for money
(iii) Iraq
(iv) Not controlling spending in other areas of government meaning that we are not well placed to withstand recession

Are you my dh quattro - he came out with a near identical pros and cons list the other day!

I am so disillusioned with Westminster politics

I am naturally left wing - but can no longer see the differecne between the Conservation and the New Tony Tory Labour Party. Labour have done and are doing things that the Tories only ever dreamt about.

And on top of it all, they took us into an illegal war and helped George Bush win a second term.

In Scotland at least we do have an alternative. And even if you don't necessarily like all the SNP policies, if we were independent, then you would be able to vote for a Labour Party that still had some principles (at least, I hope that a Scotiish labour Pary could be set up that could still remember them )

... and if I were living in England, I too am really disapointed by the Leb Dems volte face on taxation and am hard pushed to say who I owuld then vote for. Green probably! - but I do hate a wasted vote!

Need to add maternity / paternity laws in there- with ds1 and ds2 it was 12 weeks; had I been employed with ds4 6 months. And flexible working- the only way dh managed to remain in employment during sn dx's (theres additional entitlement for the disabled )

wtc has kept us afloat also

and student loans on the neg side- think I owe £18k and am not done yet

Well I for one am amazed that having spent the past decade spouting statistics at us and going on about "the longest period of uninteruppted growth" "abolishing boom and bust" blah blah blah he now has the nerve to say he's the only one to get us out of this mess.

His financial stewardship has been an utter sham, we now have record debt levels while financial trickery such as PFI is a ticking time bomb. The so-called economic and labour market growth has been due almost entirely to low-paid immigrants. Under Mr Brown's leadership, fewer people have come off benefits in the past decade than did under Mrs Thatcher. As far as I'm concerned, New Labour's financial management has been entirely smoke and mirrors.

They also inherited an economy that was in basically good shape (even saying during the 1997 election campaign that they would stick to the Tory budget limits).

Although to be fair, the foundations of the culture of living beyound your means, which has been encouraged in the last 10 years, becasue it has kept the economy in (artifically inflated) growth was put in place by Thatcher c.20 years ago, when she took away all restrcitions on lending.

Wash your mouth out with soap chocolatedot: Labour don't do "PFI" - they do "Public Private Partnerships"

Well said Prettybird,
there seem to be a range of "P**" designed to screw over taxpayers in the future.

I would say the Health service has got worse in some ways despite the huge amount of money spent. The hospital I had my children at has cut down from two maternity wards to one. It is impossible to make an appointment to see the Health Visitor - only have a drop in clinic. No routine hearing and development checks.

I hate some of the taxation ideas from Labour..such as increasing tax costs for older cars. There have been rumours council tax will be redone meaning that one pays more for having a view or being near amenities, in a nice area etc....

Labour do not understand the countryside. Hundreds of post offices have been shut down in rural communities.

I expect they have spent far more on Schools and hospitals in northern cities where people are more likely to vote for them.

I completely disagree with their stragegy of encouraging women with young children to return to work and leave their children in nurseries all day.

They claim to care about the enviroment yet they are going to allow a third runway at Heathrow.

Then there is the Iraq issue.

The only positive change I have seen has been the nursery grants for 3/4 yr olds.

I think Gordon is a decent person, and like Sarah Brown too. I don't think anyone else would be a better leader for labour but I just don't like most of the labour policies.

The liberal party should have chosen Chris Huhne..far better option than Nick Clegg.

I don't entirely know what the tories stand for these days but Cameron seems a decent person and I think he genuinely cares about the environment.

It just pisses me off. "Spreading the risk" my arse - all the PPPs or PFI or whatever you want to dress them up as have done is give the private sector a cushy way of screwing extra money out of the public sector.

It's not as if a hospital or school is able to say, "We don't like how much you are charging us - we're going to up sticks and rent from the guy next door"

sorry but lol read that as 'spread the arse, my risk

Hear hear prettybird

After the mess that is Iraq I honestly don't think I can vote Labour ever again. Gordon sat there and signed all the cheques and if any of them had an ounce of decency they would have resigned.

Being a nice person and having the worlds biggest sulk does not qualify you for any job.

I agree CrackFox. That's a huge bone of contention for me too.

But I really don't think the Tories would have handled it any differently except perhaps move even faster than Tony to be alongside the Americans. Who to vote for in future?

Meanwhile, there are some 'interesting' times ahead. I don't really care about the PM's fortunes to be honest.

Haven't read whole thread but agree with op that the media anti-Brown campaign has been extensive and created a momentum all of its own. They were talking of him having to resign before he had even taken office. Also agree that he has been well and truly shafted by Blair. I don't think all has been wonderful under Labour but it is a damn sight better than the '80's under Thatcher.

the problem is it is so long ago that Thatcher was in power, and then Major - that people have forgotten what it was like. And also they forget how comfortable things have been for so long - so now when things are toughening up again - mainly for things outside the control of any government whatever colour - they need someone to blame for things getting worse for a while.