Dare I bring up hunting?

[Amanda3266]

Just seen a report in The Times about Hare coursing. It said that even though this doesn't usually start this early - an event took place so they could fit it in before the ban.(?!)

Okay - I can just about understand the reasons given for fox hunting. I live in the country and am surrounded by hunting, shooting and fishing folk. I don't necessarily agree with all they say and do but I don't interfere with them. Each to their own etc. However, just what is the point of hare coursing? As far as I can see it's just a lust for blood. It was reported in the Times article that anti-hunt protesters there were taunted with pieces of ripped up hare and bloody foxes tails. Real nice!

So are you for the ban? Or against it?

As a lifelong country dweller I am going to nail my colours to the mast here and say "Thank God this is being banned" - anyone who taunts those who don't agree with them by brandishing bits of dead animal needs a kick where it hurts to stop them breeding any more like themselves. And "yes" I know that not all hunt people behave in this manner, I live among them. They are not well served though by the ar*eholes who do behave so shabbily.

Gets off soapbox.

Awaits abuse and protests from hunting folk

The woman I work with (an avid hunter and proud of it) has said that's how her hunt are getting round it - the hounds will just follow the guns as it were.
She always says it's not the true huntspeople but the trash that hunt with them (!?) I think she means that some people have really jumped onto the hunting bandwagon and some of them are not good news.

And .... I stand corrected about the cubbing thing - thanks to whoever it was that explained it.

Actually, can I just add: I love Mumsnet - this is one of the best discussions I've had on the subject for ages

'more to hunting than simple sadism'
yeah, right, like the social life and the illusion of being part of a venerable tradition. Not good enough for me, and not good enough for my mother who was brave enough to tell a rude and aggressive huntsman that no he could not charge through her garden, -- so they killed the fox in someone else's garden instead in front of the family. Nice. Also hounds in full flight are indiscriminate, so make sure to lock up any domestic animals. Apart from the cruelty side, I do feel incensed that this pursuit is encouraged by people who have had advantages in life and should know better than to behave like savages, and that because of their position in society, they have the arrogance to think they are above the law.

the 'trash' that hunt with them? nice turn of phrase

Well said, wild. I couldn't agree more.

And here's where we missed a golden opportunity.

Hunting should have a more explicit code of ethics. To me it's obvious that every effort should be made to keep hounds out of people's garden, for example: doesn't matter if they agree with hunting or not, hounds and gardens do not mix (as anyone who's walked foxhound puppies will tell you ). Also gardens are where people's domestic pets tend to hang out and hounds and domestic pets is a very dangerous combination .

There are other shady areas: I personally hate the practise of digging out and terrier work, as it leaves the fox trapped and with no vent for its natural flight instincts. Others would argue that if a farmer wants a fox destroyed by the hunt, that is part of the unwritten 'contract' between those two parties and the fox should be destroyed by any practical means.

Also goes without saying that people should be polite and calm, but sadly it is true that a lot of hunting people are not well up there on the 'emotional intelligence' scale and tend to focus more on trying to stop their horses/hounds flattening everything in sight.

Ah well, too late now.

As for the sadism thing, yup, I can see how it looks. I also know why I hunt and it's not for kicks of that nature

Thanks for your measured response Gizmo.
If, like you say, you breed hounds (and toffs for 200 years to kill foxes, and the fox runs into a village, this is going to happen. I don't think ethics could cope. But it's good to hear other viewpoints.

you a toff gizmo?
I was surprised to hear that I was one earlier
LOL

Damn you Piffle, my secret's out .

Of course I don't think of myself as a toff. But it's not what I think that counts, is it?

Facts against me: I am privately educated, I know how to ride, my accent is RP, I have (in RL) a ridiculous name, and I listen to Radio 4

I stand convicted!

can't be
too bright

whoops, cross-posted! what's the matter with Radio 4 then

Oh dear - I listen to R4 too. Does that make me a toff as well? Surely not.

Ladies! Now I'm blushing

By their radio station shall you know them, Amanda!

Of course, we don't have a 'Sadists FM' yet...

Cor blimey, I'm a toff too (Radio 4)!

Since the ban came in in Scotland more foxes have been killed. Or so a newspaper report said. Can't find it online though. Quite surprised to have read this as it appears that foxes can still be chased but now it's on quad bikes and they are cornered and shot instead. Found it strange and I did wonder what the point of the ban was.

To irritate toffs, of course!

I'm with those who think its a total waste of time. I've lived in the country and in cities (rural city now at the moment if that's possible). lots of completely un-toffish people around here do see it as country/town thing, or more accurately as an example of the current govt being very unaware of the problems faced by people in the country a long way from London (ie not Surrey!)

On a personal level I think there are far more important things to worry aboout.

This was my point about the ban not going far enough. The sadists will get round it. And it;s not about control of numbers. Fox populations are self-controlling according to the food available.

It's just taken me 15 minutes to dig out the quote (didn't want to risk misquoting...) but @The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated" Mahatma Ghandi

How can we claim to be civilised wjem we make sport of ripping animals apart?

yes but lots of people see it as a town/ country thing because the PR of the CA has been telling them that that's what it is for the last x number of years.

Just because people believe something, don't mean it's true. According to most surveys, the majority of people in the countryside support a ban on fox hunting.

OK, so I was joking a bit about Radio 4 (that just gets me labelled middle class ). Off-topic, I know, but is toff the same as posh? (blimey I'm philosophical this morning).

I definitely get called posh a lot, which makes me uncomfortable, since I know plenty of really posh people, and don't feel I have the same level of advantage. But as I said, it's not how I define myself that counts - it's what other people see. A bit like the recent debate over racism.

In truth I loathe all class stereotypes - so lazy - and one of the things I hate most about getting older is that I can no longer deny that what your parents do/did does has a profound impact (statistically speaking) on your likely quality of life.

I am FOR the ban (and was once a sab) but there are too many loopholes & hunting will be far from over I do find it sad that as a nation we can have rioting outside of parliament in protests against the ban on hunting and yet so many people sit idol in the face of a war that most people don't want.