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Russell Brand 🤢🤮 in the Docky Wock

1000 replies

U53rName · 21/10/2026 14:11

Credit to @thebrowncatisback for the title. Original thread is here: www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/5589048-russell-brand?callback=in&code=YTEWYJJJMZQTMJFHNS0ZNDI5LTK3N2QTZWJHYWNHZJGXNZA2&page=39&state=aa7521b41da5458084d85ced7c73c27d

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TotaleclipseinFrance · 30/10/2026 21:10

Picoloangel · 30/10/2026 20:01

What’s been great about this thread is that it hasn’t descended into insults and name calling as so many threads do. I suspect this is because this subject is one so many of us have some experience of - either directly or indirectly.

IMO almost the worst thing about this case is that RB has played the old card of trying to make the complainant in the anal rape count appear morally dubious - referring to her rimming him, saving her as “Tart.” For all his professed liberalism he’s tried to paint her as someone who has blurred lines and someone the jury shouldn’t care about. Despicable. That would be enough for me if I were his long suffering wife irrespective of the verdicts.

I don't think that a thread like this would descend into true unpleasantness.
People enjoy arguing over silly stuff but most are empathetic to know that this is not one of those subjects.

If I were his wife even IF I thought he were innocent, this fricking trial would be enough to make me leave.
Who the hell needs this shit in their life?

Who needs to hear her husband's past exploits in court like this?
To stand there and say how you started your relationship. Ffs.

For 6 people to lie about him (which IF I thought he were innocent would have to be the case) I'd still think, God he's a real shit magnet isn't he, what next? Have I married one of the unluckiest men on the planet?

I would really, really resent him for it and it would be ick, ick ickety ick.

Laura Brand is not behaving like a regular human here.
Even if you were besotted, this would kill the romance vibes, surely it would.

eastegg · 30/10/2026 21:17

Piglet89 · 30/10/2026 07:48

@hihelenhinot especially surprised the defence advocacy hasn't been particularly impressive. As I said before (and as others have noted), Ian Winter KC built his reputation largely in financial crime work rather than sexual offences.According to The Times podcast, he also put a suggestion to Woman 5 along the lines of: "I'm sure he was beastly to you, but he didn't anally rape you." I'm paraphrasing rather than quoting exactly, but that was the gist. What struck me was the choice of language.

“Beastly" feels like a very old-fashioned word. Fairly or unfairly, it's the sort of adjective I associate with upper-middle-class people of Winter's generation. It's hard not to hear the RP accent alongside it. To my ear, it risks sounding as though the allegation is being reduced to Brand having been a bit unpleasant or ungentlemanly, rather than addressing what the complainant describes as a violent encounter.

It's also an odd word choice in the context of this particular evidence. Woman 5 reportedly said that she texted Brand to say he had treated her "like an animal". Against that backdrop, describing the behaviour as merely "beastly" risks sounding flippant or tone-deaf, even if that wasn't the intention.As a piece of cross-examination, I'm not convinced it will have landed especially well with a jury.

Defence counsel obviously has to put the defence case, and the underlying proposition is clear enough: Brand may have behaved badly, but he did not rape her. The difficulty is that the wording arguably softens the conduct so much that it risks alienating jurors rather than persuading them. It is the kind of language that can make an advocate seem detached from how ordinary people would describe the allegations being discussed.Perhaps that's unfair, and we only have media reports rather than a full transcript, but on the face of it I thought the phrasing was striking, and not necessarily in a helpful way for the defence.

@easteggmaybe all this is irrelevant? But a jury’s only human, after all.

Not irrelevant I don’t think no. It’s perhaps a bit unfortunate that beastly literally means the same as like an animal which is what she said! But at the same time it sounds a bit twee.

I’ve always had a bit of a problem with this line of ‘he treated you badly but it wasn’t rape’. Badly how exactly? I mean complainant 5 wasn’t exactly there for a romantic date even by her own expectations was she. If she wasn’t raped, then it would just be what she was expecting ie transactional sex. She wasn’t expecting to be treated like a princess. So what is beastly actually supposed to mean? I actually think the fact that she was there for transactional sex (defence phrase), strengthens her complaint.

I’ve been away from internet all day today, still catching up.

eastegg · 30/10/2026 21:39

LaDeratiseuse · 30/10/2026 19:43

But if there was no indicator (‘she froze’) that she wasn’t continuing to consent - how can the jury possibly convict?
This is really serious accusation with life/changing consequences for the defendant. The onus has to be on the accuser to convince that it wasn’t consensual. If it was initially consensual and the accuser didn’t give clear unequivocal communication that she wanted it to stop, then you can’t possibly convict of rape.

She didn’t fucking freeze ok? She said can you stop 3 times.

Klippin · 30/10/2026 22:30

Picoloangel · 30/10/2026 21:04

The prosecution case wasn’t that he was mistaken about consent it was that he knew full well the complainants didn’t consent - I suspect introducing a concept of mistaken consent would be to muddy the waters and hand the jury a way to acquit.

I see - but surely we need to understand Russell brand’s ability of establish
and maintain consent is seeing as it’s ‘more important to him than sex itself?’

Opus3 · 30/10/2026 22:58

I was going to post against a certain poster. But I have read on and seen others say how the thread hasn't descended into that.

So I'm not going to post what I was going to.

Instead: I hopes he convicted. And I hope the women are able to go on and live happy lives.

Mamamia35 · 30/10/2026 23:05

The Crime Desk podcast is a good listen today for summing up the prosecution’s case.

eastegg · 31/10/2026 00:09

KidsDoBetter · 30/10/2026 11:46

Criminal bods - is this not an odd direction?

'Only verdicts I can accept'
The judge also tells the court: "The only verdicts I can accept are those that are unanimous verdicts."
He says the group of 12 jurors - made up of eight men and four women - must all agree on verdicts of guilty or not guilty.
The judge adds: "You may have heard about majority verdicts, but if so, put them out of your mind."

I know judges very very strongly favour and promote unanimous verdicts and will send a jury back out to try and reach unanimity. But there is nothing at law that would ultimately prevent conviction on a majority basis. Unlike say certain Australian states and other jurisdictions that require it for certain v serious offences like murder.

The thing is he can’t accept majority verdicts yet. Time has to pass and the judge has to be satisfied it’s right to allow any majority verdicts. But the proper direction is that it has to be unanimous, not that it has to be unanimous for the time being.

How long to give it is up to the judge.

eastegg · 31/10/2026 00:24

LaDeratiseuse · 30/10/2026 13:32

Of course not.
I just would like to see people considering the actual evidence, not taking a view because he has an obnoxious public persona.

Oh you’re funny you are. Considering the actual evidence? Says the poster who I’ve just called out for talking about the anal rape complainant in terms of ‘but how can the jury be sure if she consented initially and then didn’t give a clear indication that she no longer consented’. I’m calling out your patronising, hypocritical bullshit. It’s you who isn’t considering the evidence. I’m doing just fine considering it, thanks.

MorwennaIII · 31/10/2026 00:42

TotaleclipseinFrance · 30/10/2026 21:10

I don't think that a thread like this would descend into true unpleasantness.
People enjoy arguing over silly stuff but most are empathetic to know that this is not one of those subjects.

If I were his wife even IF I thought he were innocent, this fricking trial would be enough to make me leave.
Who the hell needs this shit in their life?

Who needs to hear her husband's past exploits in court like this?
To stand there and say how you started your relationship. Ffs.

For 6 people to lie about him (which IF I thought he were innocent would have to be the case) I'd still think, God he's a real shit magnet isn't he, what next? Have I married one of the unluckiest men on the planet?

I would really, really resent him for it and it would be ick, ick ickety ick.

Laura Brand is not behaving like a regular human here.
Even if you were besotted, this would kill the romance vibes, surely it would.

Do you think there’s a big disadvantage to the prosecution having presented their closing arguments before the weekend and the defence next week @eastegg ?

MorwennaIII · 31/10/2026 00:42

Sorry, didn’t mean to quote you @TotaleclipseinFrance !

Picoloangel · 31/10/2026 07:23

I don’t think there is any disadvantage in the defence giving their closing speech after the weekend. The jurors will almost certainly have formed a preliminary view by this stage. As I said earlier the big unknown here is how the witnesses came across. They may have been very compelling or not. We have read what they said but cannot know how they said it.

I think on the topic of consent the prosecution case is that it was obvious that these particular complainants were not consenting so his view of consent generally is neither here nor there.

LaDeratiseuse · 31/10/2026 08:18

Since the judge has said he wants a unanimous verdict more likely the jury will consider it more lengthily if they are deliberating next week than if they are eager to get home for the weekend.

Klippin · 31/10/2026 08:36

Picoloangel · 31/10/2026 07:23

I don’t think there is any disadvantage in the defence giving their closing speech after the weekend. The jurors will almost certainly have formed a preliminary view by this stage. As I said earlier the big unknown here is how the witnesses came across. They may have been very compelling or not. We have read what they said but cannot know how they said it.

I think on the topic of consent the prosecution case is that it was obvious that these particular complainants were not consenting so his view of consent generally is neither here nor there.

This is true but it would be revealing if he were to be cross examined about it. Particularly as they clearly didn’t consent. Just odd that she didn’t that’s all.

thebrowncatisback · 31/10/2026 08:43

life changing consequences for the defendant?

ah but rape wouldn’t really have affected the victims in any meaningful way 🙄

thebrowncatisback · 31/10/2026 08:47

Riel Karmy-Jones did a great job at picking holes in Brand’s evidence during her summation

mids2019 · 31/10/2026 08:48

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cewq9vznzz5o

Interesting case below where I think the acquittal was that it boiled down to be said she with no independent verification of the woman saying no. I think the scope of people being told of the alleged crimes is important for the prosecution's well as physical injury.

Ward looks straight at the camera at an event. He is wearing a green collared shirt and is wearing an earring.

Top Boy actor Micheal Ward not guilty of rape after sex with woman in car

Micheal Ward told the jury the encounter with his accuser was "wholly consensual".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cewq9vznzz5o

TotaleclipseinFrance · 31/10/2026 08:57

MorwennaIII · 31/10/2026 00:42

Sorry, didn’t mean to quote you @TotaleclipseinFrance !

That's OK.
I was only going on a bit of a rant that even IF I thought he were innocent (which by definition all those women would be lying) I couldn't bear to be with a man who was so unlucky and attracted such dangerous negativity to our lives that I'd conclude If have to leave for my own sanity, anyway.

Picoloangel · 31/10/2026 09:00

I think in the Micheal Ward case there were texts after the incident that undermined the account that it wasn’t consensual. I might be wrong about that but I have a vague memory of there being texts.

In Brand’s case a lot of it is he said/she said but the Brighton allegation is supported to some extent by the accounts of his being keen to leave in a hurry etc and what he is alleged to have said about it some years later. On the anal rape there appears to be alot of corroborating evidence.

I would love to know what Katy Perry knows! She has described him as controlling and many female comedians have described him as predatory

mids2019 · 31/10/2026 09:02

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/russell-brand-trial-close-jury-wife-b3076395.html

It seems a bit flow chart like from the jurors point of view. As you have a very specific set of questions with determined results is the jury expected to expand discussion to take into account say character reference or surrounding events?

The list of 22 questions the jury needs to answer to convict or clear Russell Brand

The judge told the jury there would be ‘no pressure of time’ to reach their decisions

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/russell-brand-trial-close-jury-wife-b3076395.html

Picoloangel · 31/10/2026 09:07

All jurors in all cases will be given a Route to Verdict which is a series of questions crafted by the Judge. It is a bit like a flowchart as you’ve described - questions jurors should ask themselves to reach a verdict.

Picoloangel · 31/10/2026 09:08

It doesn’t replace discussion. It’s sort of a roadmap on the back of discussions.

Whosthetabbynow · 31/10/2026 09:18

GarlicNothing · 30/10/2026 17:53

I was answering the quoted post, which claimed the only way to get a blow job in a toilet cubicle is to balance on the bog!

I’m sure that’s what was said in court; that he stood on the toilet. Happy to be corrected.

thebrowncatisback · 31/10/2026 10:01

@TotaleclipseinFrance

totally agree. Regardless of the outcome, he is incredibly sleazy. I couldn’t ever be with a womanising, predatory sleazebag. Just his reputation would have kept me away. How are women attracted to men like this? I’ll never understand

Piglet89 · 31/10/2026 10:11

thebrowncatisback · 31/10/2026 10:01

@TotaleclipseinFrance

totally agree. Regardless of the outcome, he is incredibly sleazy. I couldn’t ever be with a womanising, predatory sleazebag. Just his reputation would have kept me away. How are women attracted to men like this? I’ll never understand

Same. Plus the fact he always looks like he needs a good scrub.

allthingsinmoderation · 31/10/2026 10:13

How do you prove beyond a doubt that you said NO and did not consent to a sexual act ? How do you defend an allegation that you did not have/reasonably believe you had consent to a specific sexual contact?

Many believe RB is vile,repulsive ,misogynistic,promiscuous and treated women appallingly.(he makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up ,even with his persona today) I think he "probably" he is guilty of some of these heinous offences, but, did the prosecution prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that he did not have consent or he did not believe he had consent in each separate allegation....... i hate to say it, but i do have a doubt. Bottom line is the claimants say he did not have consent or believe he had consent,he says he did have consent or reasonably believed he had consent. This case has highlighted how diffficult it is to secure a rape conviction and i can understand why civil case are brought eg: The Connor Mcgregor case.

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