lesbians don't like being called lesbians as they are not lesbians

[2shoes]

I wouldn't want to have to decide who is right, would you?

And the reason I think homophobia is playing a part here is from the quote on the BBC website:

"The man at the centre of the dispute claims the sexual connotation of the word brings disgrace to islanders."

I did love the lady on the news hour this morning.
the interviewer asked her if she liked being called a lesbian, she said not really she preferred to be called Barbara,

Everything that MsD said

Oh come on, it is a bit naive to say that lesbian as gay doesn't have an impact on Lesbians.
It may not have much impact on a British person living in Britain, but I can imagine that it's pretty annoying for a Lesbian man to be greeted by sniggers every time he says where he's from. Or a Lesbian woman having people assuming she's making a statement about her sexuality. And so on.

Another thing that I think you haven't considered, is that when you don't live in your place of birth, you find yourself explaining your nationality a lot. I probably say "I'm English" or "I'm from Oxford" at least once a week to strangers, because I don't live in England. Therefore, the word becomes more important.

thirdly, we are not used to controlling English. France and Germany have academies that can, if they so choose, direct the language far more precisely. For example, Le computer was "out there" but I have noticed that the people Ive come across now seem to say l'ordinateur instead.

Taking these things into account, the islanders' campaign doesnt seem so unreasonable.

cyteen, if you are still in the discussion, can you address my point at 18.10.44 about minorities and our attitudes towards them?

MsDemeanour has already said everything I wanted to say, and probably far more eloquently to be honest. No one is saying that either side should have absolute right over the word/name, just that both sides should be free to use it as befits them because, like it or not, it has now taken on an additional meaning.

People have to explain themselves every day in some way or another. If a native Lesbian is greeted by sniggers and mirth then frankly that is the problem of the person doing the sniggering, since they clearly feel that being gay is something to laugh about. If I were in that situation I would just add "as in, I'm from Lesbos" and that would be the end of it.

but can you understand the frustration of the people of Lesbos? From your earlier post, it would seem not.

the point about attitude to minorities was not addressed.

Anyway, the point is that the Lesbians have come out and said that they dont like it.

This is your point about minorities, yes?

"I find the argument that the Lesbians should lose because they are smaller in number, a bit uncomfortable, coming from people supporting the cause of lesbians (a tiny minority). Haven't we campaigned for years for the rights of minorities?

Then, here comes a case there the minority is the majority, and suddenly it's OK to overrule the rights of the minority...."

I have addressed it thus:

"No one is saying that either side should have absolute right over the word/name, just that both sides should be free to use it as befits them because, like it or not, it has now taken on an additional meaning."

HTH

Oh, and in case it's also not clear yet, I agree with MsDemeanour that the islanders' campaign has a strong flavour of prejudice against homosexuals. So if they're frustrated, perhaps they should learn to be more tolerant.

What I think is interesting is that this was on the bbc and there was a whole report, but in Greece where the news item originated there was barely a mention! In fact I only heard about it over here because one of the channels runs the bbc headlines! It wasn't on any of the main Greek channels.

If it is such an issue why can't they just say they are Greek?

sorry cyteen, that still comes across as unaccomodating to other peoples' stated wishes about how they are described.

No it doesn't. They can describe themselves any way they want. Nobody's trying to stop them calling themselves Lesbians. They are the only people trying to stop someone else using a word to describe themselves, and they can't do it, certainly not worldwide. Nobody's jurisdiction spreads that wide!

We'll have the Dutch complaining about dykes next...

well in this case, the problem is not someone calling them a different name, it is people changing the meaning of their name.
I am happy to change words that I use if people say they dont like that word being applied to them, so I dont see why the lesbian community cant be similarly acommodating. We've all changed our language in the last 20 years or so because of people's stated objections, this is really no different.

pmsl at "the interviewer asked her if she liked being called a lesbian, she said not really she preferred to be called Barbara,"

at Edam!
Let's face it, why would they be upset? a/because you don't like lesbians and think they are shameful (their stated reason)
or
b/ because people titter every time a burly Greek bloke says 'I'm Lesbian'. Which is scarcely the fault of the worldwide community of gay women!

But really, it's like people called Allcock or Smellie or Willy or Daft trying to insist nobody should be allowed to use those words as people titter at their surnames. Must be a pain for them, and I sympathise if they want to change their name, but they can't insist the whole world changes to save them a bit of embarrassment.

well (b), obviously. "hardly the fault of lesbians?" that's not the point - nobody is laying blame, just saying the language should change.

I disagree, MsD. I would go out of my way to refer to someone from a minority (eg lesbians) in a way that they found acceptable, and this is no different.

given, of course, that they would prefer to be refered to as Barbara, which is perfectly reasonable.

The difference in the cases you cite of us having changed the words we use to describe people in other circumstances NN, is that the people themselves have told us that theat's what they want. The difference here is that one group are trying to get another group not to use a word some of the other group are perfectly happy with, thank you very much, because the group in question despises the other group in question. I don't really think we need to be polite about their homophobia.

In this case they are objecting to a word's meaning being changed, which comes to the same thing, though. Dismissing it as homophobia is avoiding the issue.

I disagree, I think homophobia is the issue actually. The only reason this campaign group is bringing this case, is because of its homophobia. "Disgrace" upon the island forsooth. It's its claim to fame.

But you seem to have this all backward NN. I am happy to address the people of Lesbos any way they want. That's NOT the issue. The issue is that the people of Lesbos want to change what other people call themselves.
Lesbians (the gay women sort) are perfectly happy being called lesbians and don't want to change. Neither are they suggesting the people of Lesbos change anything either. They can share the word.
And let's face it the 'shameful' comment really was a bit of a giveaway, wasn't it?
Btw, the word lesbian, meaning a gay woman, dates back to 1732, according to Wikipedia, is used in most languages around the world, and appears in all dictionaries. It's part of the language, annoying as that might be too the inhabitants of Lesbos. But, again, it's as unreasonable to challenge it as to say that nobody can use the word smelly as it makes people laugh at people called Smelly.