Cliche, caught husband watching porn.

[Krispiecakes24]

First time poster, long time lurker. I've read so many people receiving words of wisdom here and I can't believe I'm posting. Here goes.

Married 16 years, together 20 and 2 DC. Found my husband's phone in the bathroom of our holiday apartment, still on and showing lesbian porn. He came back to gwt it and saw me so he knows I know. I am so shocked and upset. I know some people are ok with porn but we've never used it in our relationship and never discussed that he uses it sometimes. It's made me feel ugly, unwanted, undesirable, stupid and naive. He's not who I thought he was.

Cliche, we've been having less sex lately for the usual reasons - young kids, busy lives, too tired but we've been speaking about it (at my insistence) and we've always been able to speak about anything. I get upset about lack of affection from him, I feel like he jumps straight to sex when he's barely touched me for days and I hate it.

We've talked tonight once DC were in bed and he was almost defensive, said most men watch porn, it's a fantasy and not real life and he's really ashamed. I told him how it made me feel and he said nothing. I honestly don't know where we go from here. We're working on other issues and have looked into marriage counselling but never got round to booking anything.

He's ruined our holiday (I feigned feeling unwell to explain my mood to DCs and missed out on a sunny afternoon with them) and I feel he's ruined us. Am I being melodramatic? He's sleeping in another room tonight, not sure how long we'll get away with that in front of DC. I love our family so much, I'm just devastated.

A lot of people occasionally look at porn. I have on occasion if I need a quick 'fix'. I never really look at the people's faces if that's any consolation. I don't fancy any of them.

Porn is generally rehearsed and badly acted. What they do isn't something you would particularly want to try yourself. Its fantasy.

My partner used to watch porn occasionally too. I didn't care, but he hasn't now in a long while as he gets sex regularly and doesn't feel the need. But I'm sure if our sex life dried up, he would watch porn to get him off, and I would rather that than he cheat on me in real life.

Where did it say he payed? Do you live under a rock? There is all the porn you can eat readily and easily (vpn) available for free. Nobody pays for porn.

It's fine to have porn as a boundary, but if you haven't ever voiced it how was he supposed to know? I do believe a lot of men use it and it's naive to assume it's not happening just because he hasn't explicitly told you he does.

I thought I'd deleted this thread and reposted in relationships but just want to address some of the comments.

I never said we don't ever have sex or that i always turn him down, it's just dwindled. I'm the one who's brought it up as an issue, not him. I can't believe I'm being blamed for my reaction rather than his actions.

Most women, myself included, see sex differently to men. As a way to connect and show love. I thought he felt this way too as thats what he's told me and it has shocked me that he doesn't. At least not always. When I'm being pawed at for sex at the end of the day I'm not going to apologise for not being in the mood, especially when he never shows any affection toward me. I can't be turned on like a tap.

We're looking into marriage counselling when we get home so I hope that will help. I obviously have some unpicking to do around how this has affected me so deeply so hopefully that will help.

Thank you for the supportive comments.

That is so not gaslighting.

Nothing has changed. He has watched porn regularly throughout your relationship and prior to it.
Anyone who thinks their man doesn’t watch porn is deluded.
It is no reflection of you, how you look, your relationship, or anything else. It is just something that men (and women) watch. And be wont stop. It’s not that nice to talk about, which is why no one does. Move past it.

For me the lack of affection would be the big issue here.

Did you ever ask him if he watched porn or tell him that it was a dealbreaker for you?

It's great to have boundaries but if you don't make them clear from the start then you end up in this sort of mess.

I disagree entirely. Just because you don’t hand over money for things doesn’t mean they’re free - like this platform! Pornography is much more damaging- the performance is paid for and the performers are at high risk of paying in terms of damage. The attention of the audience is the currency, as is their future dependency- like ‘free spins’ on a gambling website, free pornography is fishing for potential addicts, with no thought of the harm done to the consumer, their sexual function, their relationships and families, nor society at large. It ain’t me who’s been living under a rock, I’m just able to see past my nose.

You know OP, I realize my first response came across as unkind and I’m sorry for that. But it was genuine and intended to help.

someone suggested it’s gaslighting to say his actions didn’t lead to you feeling bad about yourself. I really don’t think that is gaslighting. If he is negging or making snide comments about you or your appearance or acting like he doesn’t desire you, then these are actions from him that over time, if you tolerate them can be responsible for eroding your self esteem. He would be the problem and the solution would probably be getting rid of him or, if it’s not too severe, forcing a change in his behaviour.

But I really don’t believe him enjoying looking at other naked women in private is responsible for causing you to feel awful about yourself or your holiday being ruined. I would say all human beings, and definitely all men who are not close to asexual, - whether they actually do it or not, could on occasion enjoy the sight of naked bodies and sex. And this is absolutely irrespective of whether they are in a relationship, love their partner passionately or desire them madly. It simply reflects human nature, nothing about you at all. And it is also nothing you ever discussed or asked him not to do, so it isn’t a betrayal of trust either.

It is a partner’s job not to actively erode your self esteem, and indeed it shows abusive tendencies if they do. But it is NOT a partner’s job to walk on eggshells and deny simple human truths to bolster their partner’s fragile self esteem…. Neither should it be their job to apologise for and be shamed for your discovering something that is very normal and you never asked them not to do. That can also become a form of control or abuse in the other direction.

it is ultimately your own job to build and maintain your self esteem.

I am always wary of phrases like “x has made me feel….” Or “x has ruined everything..” when actually the X has done something pretty innocuous, has been contrite anyway, and the more extreme actions and emotions seem to be on the other person’s part

That is what triggered my reaction, and while it sounds tough and many might disagree, I hope there is something useful in it.

I am glad you say you have an appetite to unpick why you feel so strongly. That could be very fruitful. And I’m not saying it’s all on you. But it’s not all on him either.

I hope things end up in a good place for you.

But OP’s objections are not moral or ethical/ about societal costs, feminism or the risk of him becoming addicted. If this thread was ‘I’m struggling with the ethics of porn and how to set the right, principled boundaries as a couple’ this would be relevant.

The thread, by my reading, is about how it makes her feel about herself , her esteem as a woman and partner, and her relationship that he likes to see other naked women having sex.

It so is. Making OP feel that way with his actions and then saying it’s her problem.

Gaslighting is a sustained campaign to undermine someone’s grip on reality. A single comment on a discussion forum hardly qualifies.

It does, and you are undermining that. We’ll have to agree to disagree.

Google the definition of gaslighting. You’ll find that you’re mistaken.

Nope.

Er, yup.

😆I adore the sophistication of the arguments you are both bringing.

And admire your persistence!

As the poster who was originally accused of gaslighting, let me jump in. What I said is not gaslighting, not just because it’s not an ongoing campaign. Gaslighting is also by definition an attempt to make the person doubt their own sanity and manipulate them. I can swear that is NOT my intent. It is also about saying that ‘red is white’ when any normal person can see the opposite- whereas what I am saying I think is pretty reasonable to believe (backed up by the fact a good number of other posters feel the same), and is said for OP’s sake. If you look at my posting history, you will see I have done hundreds of posts trying to persuade and embolden women to escape gaslighting or abusive men. But this thread reads a bit different.

I believe very strongly that women will be happier, stronger and healthier if we take responsibility for our own self esteem, actions and reactions. No man should be able to MAKE us feel ugly etc. We can recognize that they are trying to do that, and take action. But not that they are directly responsible for our feelings about ourselves. In addition to this, by my assessment, her reaction was a massive overreaction. She had never bothered to discuss porn or clarify his use of porn, but had assumed - contrary to its obvious prevalence, that he never uses it. This indicates a willful blindness on her part, and a possible tendency of ‘setting yourself up to fail and be let down’. Then on finding out he does use porn, this has MADE her feel ugly and undesirable and HE is responsible for ruining the holiday and “ruining us”. There is also the unspoken bit that she basically snooped on his phone. I do not believe he left that thing running with the images flashing and the moaning going on! She picked up his phone and at very least, took a look at the screen, and probably pressed play to discover more about what kind of porn it was. Yet this is all his fault?

There is something very extreme in all this, which is not about the man but is about OP, her way of thinking, her choices, her interpretations and emotional reactions. All of these things matter. They are important. I am not saying this to be mean to OP- we are all complex and we all play a role in what happens to us. What she feels is understandable…..and it is valid. But OP does not help herself by pretending this is all about a terrible action from a man- neither do the posters egging her on. And I am sure as hell not gaslighting by pointing that out.

So sorry op you're going through this I will try to find your other thread incase you're not checking this one.

You are completely valid in how you feel. Please check out omar minwhalla secret sexual basement. Love after porn on reddit. For wonderful resources and support. Helping couples heal podcast.

For counselling you will need a trained therapist in betrayal trauma and ideally familiar with the minwhalla model. A run of the mill therapist has the potential to cause so much more trauma. For your partner I would highly reccomend therapy with Chris jones.

I do however acknowledge that my first reaction was blunt to the point of unkind. Which I already apologised to OP for.

This is probably because I have suffered from a relationship in which somebody would have major meltdowns over things I did which they had never discussed or asked me not to do… it was always all my fault, was highly emotive, linked to me ‘making’ them feel awful, and it felt like constantly falling in traps. So this ‘theme’ is one that tends to get me posting with perhaps too much passion….

But I shouldn’t project and I take responsibility for and apologize for that unkindness.

I'm not going to come back to the thread after this but just to clear a few things up. I did not snoop on his phone, I've never felt the need to. He genuinely left it running with the video showing, part of my shock was that he'd done this. Our kids could have seen it, thank God it was me.

I'd posted originally just a few hours after this happened. I was clearly in shock. I've had time to calm down and talk to him and I'm doing much better. I don't know why I reacted so viscerally to this and I clearly need to unpick that. I do have pretty decent self esteem normally which is not reliant on him but with us having less sex lately, yes this hurt.

We've booked to see a counsellor and will take it from there. Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply, whether you thought I massively over reacted or could see where I was coming from. I couldn't share this with anyone in real life and it's really helped to hear different views.

I honestly don't think its any of your business at all.

would you rather he was constantly pestering you for sex?
would you rather he was asking you to have a threesome with another woman?
Is it really so bad that he takes himself in hand?

If it wasn't for the use of porn would you still be upset that he is getting himself off?