Mothers must lead the fight against knives

[BellaLasagne]

www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/05/27/do2704.xml

Is there anything we can do?

I agree with you Suedonim - collective responsibility also includes having a common understanding of hwat is right and wrong - and having the courage to follow through.

I am equally pessimistic about whether or not we can achieve that paradigm shift - but am still determined that in our own actions, we live by what we beleive.

I think the binge drinking culture is a seperate issue to knife crime.
Most of these attacks happen on the streeets with very litle alcohol involved.
It is more a complete disregard for society and a belief that lidfe is cheap.
All the reasons for this attitude exist- coming from a violent/ aggressive home, low self esteem, exposure to despicable behaviour,bad role models, and feeling completely estranged from our society at large.
I believe in a zero tolerance policy; as with toddlers, it makes young people feel secure to have boundaries and that they are valued by society.
Of course stop and search needs to be reintroduced; i listened with great interest to a leading youth worker explaining that many youths have nothing to fear if they have done nothing wrong, and it is true.
We also need the resources to follow up on children who show signs of disruption in/or are excluded from school.
Of course it is ultimately what you learn at home that is the basis for your behaviour.

It starts in primary school.

An education system that fails boys from the word go.

A predominantly female environment, geared for girls. Very few male role models - this fact is made worse by the fact that many boys have no positive male role models at home.

Little boys forced to start in reception at the age of 4. Expected to start formal learning in a confined space, when they would be far better off in the much larger nursery space, with lots of outdoor play - learning to interact socially, developing friendship skills etc, for at least a further 2 years.

Not enough green space - schools selling off playing fields.

I would like to see schools open all year round, with lots of outdoor activities timetabled for the summer months, with PE teachers in school to supervise compulsory attendance. Presumably PE teachers do not have a lot of preparation and marking? I could be wrong.

I would also like to see arts, crafts, dance, drama as part of an all year curriculum. While so many parents have no choice but to work full time, and the cost of childcare outstripping the average salary, far too many children of school age are unsupervised for much of their lives.
Christmas, easter, long summer holidays, not to mention a week off every half term. It is an awful lot of time.

I am a nurse and not very well paid. I bring masses of work home, and generally work about 10 hours a week unpaid. I get 5 weeks holiday a year, including bank holidays.

I have enormous respect for teachers, but I do think the school year could be better organised so that teenagers are not roaming the streets for weeks on end.

I do not think it is the fault of the schools.
These children are sent to school being told not to take any shit off the teachers, not to respect women, that being violent towards staff and other pupils is acceptable.
That is why school is failing many of these boys, because their home environment sets them up for academic failure.

Agree, Mrs R, it is not totally the fault of the schools, but, the education system in this country exacerbates the existing problem of poor or absent parenting and family breakdown. (I do stand by what I say about boys starting reception at 4).

If we are looking for solutions, we have to look at everything, and start somewhere.

Getting young teenagers off the streets and out of gangs by providing a structured, safe environment and lots of interesting activities would be a start, and schools are a ready made infrastructure.

I agree that binge drinking and knife crime are separate issues, to an extent, but not entirely unrelated.

Sticking with the knife issue - knives are potent symbols of power, always have been, and this is a large part of their attraction, particularly for those who feel otherwise powerless, particularly those who are vulnerable and immature in their powerlessness.

That said, I think we're becoming a nation of largely powerless, or maybe just gutless, people - suedonim's observation about the ease with which people take/cause offence in the context of rebuking a child that is not your own points to this, and if the discomfort of causing offence is enough to stop someone doing the right thing, then there's not much chance of getting the right thing done when the stakes are higher.

Whilst zero-tolerance represents action on one front - short-term containment, longer-term boundary setting, although very resource-intensive to implement - we have to look wider and we have to look further ahead.

what you are saying about physical activit makes sense. Once kids reach 10, all play provision seems to grind to a halt (unless the children like sports and not all do)
Boredom is a terribly desctructive thing for young people.

A definite yes to more physical activity for children, but a definite 'no' to more imposed authority, more stop-and-search etc. That will make things worse not better because once again it's bad for teenagers is you start from the position that they are all violent scum and will behave badly unless they are bullied and intimidated by the powerful. Few things are more lethal for society than the attitude that the Government has the right to stop you, search you, invade your home and monitor your communcations JUST IN CASE. The huge levels of street surveillance may actually be causing some of the street disorder that occurs, simply because the feeling that one is being spied on ALL THE TIME makes people irritable, paranoid, insecure and inclined to over-react.

british crime survey and directgov report on reduction in violent crime stats

I had to look at the statistics before I responded on this one because although I think every knife related death that has been reported this year is horrible and should never happen I do not believe our society is fundementally more violent than it used to be. The crime stats do not reflect a rise in crime but the perception of crime is different and there definitely seems to be more fear of groups of teens from the rest of society.

I am not yet a parent of teenagers just pre-school age children, though I am an aunt to 12 children ranging in age from 6 - 20. I was a drunken teen once myself - it was common when I was 15 to nick/ buy alchohol and drink it in the local park just as it is now. I never terrorised anyone knowingly and I certainly didn't get involved with fights or stabbings but I lived in a little town and that sort of thing seemed confined to the cities then as now. I was ultimately a good kid and went to uni (got even more hideously drunk) and went on to be a respectable member of society - barely ever drink now.

The majority of children from basically decent and loving parents will also grow up to be decent members of society. Those whose parents either are not around or do not care will have a struggle, if they live in poor conditions if they see violence around them as a normal part of their existance then they will carry a weapon to protect themselves; the fact that they are more likely to get involved in violent crime is obvious as if you have a weapon in your posession your are ipso facto (really hope that is in right context) more likely to use it!

You can have all the heavy handed police presence and punitive justice you like (incidently how full do we want prisons to be? and how useful are v short sentences as they certainly don't allow time for any form of reform!!) - until we deal with the social deprivation behind the stats violent crime is going to be a fact of life.

I would like to see mandatory sentencing for carrying, let alone using, a weapon.

However, I believe only violent criminals and those carrying weapons should be in prison.

Restitution, rather than punishment, should be the norm for every other criminal.

Tagging, together with supervised community service and rehabilitation should apply for non- violent crime.

I have to live with constant anxiety because I am the mother of 2 teenaged sons. They do not carry knives - but they have been attacked so many times, and I mean really seriously attacked, not just threatened, in broad daylight sometimes, just because they happened to be walking along a particular street at the wrong time.

You only have to look at someone in what they perceive to be the wrong way, to end up being assaulted. It really is that bad.

When I lived in the US I loved it that where we lived (I appreciate it's a big country!) there were curfews for school age kids. If they were out they weren't intimidated by the police, they were merely given back to the care of their parents.

What I've seen a lot, coming from a bad council estate, I have heard parents who say they can't do anything with their kids, and that's little kids, never mind when they're teenagers. And they also want "the government" to do something about it. I'm sorry, but the nanny state (and I am quite a lefty so I'm all for social safety nets etc.) has led to the belief that "the government" is parent, so even parents act like children. And, combined with this is that they are also passing on a no-one can tell you what to do mentality.

But, everyone else has to take responsibility as well. I smile and say hello to the kids on this street, I treat them like human beings not potential criminals. I will also tell kids off in the street, and most times they're apologetic. I help kids in the playground if they're in trouble on the bars/beams, or have fallen over and there's no adult immediately on the way. It takes a village and all that. Mostly the other parents stand around and do nothing, what must that do for a child? You're in trouble, but so many adults are just standing there doing nothing and you're all alone. Why would that engender trust in adults? All this stranger danger. How real is the risk in comparison to a child believing that adults are more likely to harm than to help.

I did spend a couple of years working with teenagers so they don't scare me, they have so much energy, and a huge sense of right and wrong, and a need for justice that they don't see adults giving them. I'm not saying their way of going about it is right, but what choice do they have when others have abdicated their responsibility to the community?

I probably haven't even covered other things that are going wrong here, including society failing boys as has been mentioned.

I agree with MrsRuffallo - the damage is mostly done, IMO, before the teachers have a chance. Home environment and value systems are important.
We live in a post-Thatcher era where too many people think they know their rights but are curiously vague about their responsibilities to other members of their family and those around them.
That said, I agree with whoever said earlier that teenagers are not going to respect "authority" figures such as MPs with their hands in the till - can you blame them .
I don't think making teachers work over the holidays is the right answer, myself - they and the children need a break from each other, and the school environment. IMO teenagers need accessible, fun, low-cost club activities and projects out of school. But then who's going to make sure they turn up if the adults in the home are not taking a proactive interest in their whereabouts?

But the school buildings could be used, and sports, arts, crafts, drama, clubs etc could all be run as part of the curriculum.

The families who could benefit from this are the ones who would not bother to organise child care and probably couldn't afford to pay for it anyway.

The tax credit system is so complicated, surely it would be better to just build this into the existing education system. Parents could book their children out for holidays in exactly the same way we all book our annual leave.

Scouts and guides etc are wonderful organisations - but there is a real shortage of volunteer, and legislation makes it so hard to keep these groups going. Why could more support not be given to expanding these organisations?

"What about 'father's should take more responsibility for their offspring and set a good example'

well said Callisto!

Thanks everyone for your thoughts - there really are no simple answers to this one I think but you raised some good points which (hopefully) I managed to get across.