'Couples with children 'have to work THREE TIMES as hard as single mothers to stay above the poverty line'

[littlelamb]

Its the Mail, sorry
Reporting like this makes me so mad, even though to an extent it is true. I am a single parent, a 'feckless girl' as one of the comments puts it and I do not sit on my backside, I have a full time job that is bloody hard work. Because I work, I recieve tax credits, without which I could not work. They pay for my childcare. I have a friend who married last year, having been a single parent for 3 years previously, who now cannot afford to work as she would get no help with childcare costs. So in this respect, yes I suppose they are worse off financially as a couple tan they would be as two single people. But to say her husband works 3 times as hard as me to cope financially ??? I hate hate hate the bloody daily mail, and its constant suggestions that single mothers are all undeserving scroungers

I'm in mascara's camp. Pay the same child care costs as a married working couple with kids with only a single income coming in, same mortgage cost, I get no benefits. I earn a good salary but have little disposable incomc.

No complaints, life is good if economically a little tight.

I'm sure its annoying to see other people getting more than you if you're struggling but think the proportion of single mothers who deliberately get pregnant just for the benefits is probably quite small (I wonder if there is any way of knowing?).

pmsl at the idea that someone else is working three times ahrder than me though. TWice maybe because I'm a lazy git but a single working mother of a toddler... three times harder... I don't thnk so.

ok -I'll phrase it another way. Should my DH leave me I would not only be able to pay all the bills, I would be better off by a couple of hundred quid a month and that's before we even consider any child maintenance pay I might get. That's with me working the same job I do at present which is 16hrs a week for a pittance.

The problem with this as far as I can see is that the benefits system would not only compensate for the lack of my DH's fulltime wage they would over compensate for it!

I have absolutely nothing against single parents anymore than I have anything against any other type of parent but sometimes it's single parents who are their own worst enemies moaning about how tough things are as if struggling to run a home and make ends meet and work around the children is any easier when you are part of a couple.

connie-that isn't right-you would (most likely unless you are SERIOUSLY lucky!) get any maintenance-my dd is 4 and I have never had a penny as the CSA are useless. I get £44 a week tax credits, and the rest of our income I work a 40 hour week for and childcare comes out of that, plus £870 a month rent, plus bills, We are not all benefit scrounging sp's that are better off than everyone else, and those that are on benefits are probably on them because they could not afford their rent otherwise, let alone their bills. No single parent plans to be a single parent, and they definately don't plan it for financial reasons.

sorry, Connie, married people moan just as much about how hard it is.. we all farking moan sometimes and we're all allowed to!

I'm so sick of the Single parents have it harder Vs married parents have it harder debates that keep occuring on here.

I sometimes feel people compete for hardship.

"it's single parents who are their own worst enemies moaning about how tough things are as if struggling to run a home and make ends meet and work around the children is any easier when you are part of a couple."

There may be individual circumstances where couples have as much of a struggle to cope financially as a single, but I'd be amazed if the majority of couples don't find it easier to manage childcare and run a home than as a single surely mathematics means that work divided by two adults is less than the same amount of work divided by one?

I'm not complaining. But I went away with family at the weekend who helped out with DS and I was startled at how much easier it was with other adults around. Even having a second pair of eyes/hands whilst I'm cooking his tea is less stressful than trying to entertain him on my own and cook/clean etc

maybe Kewcumber, but when your dh is out the house before the kids wake up and back after they're in bed then surely its the same battle. He has to work those hours to pay the bills.

I'm not trying to imply its easy for anyone Connie - but when I'm home and DS is in bed thats it - not quick runs out to get milk if DS has poured it all over the floor (like yesterday) or if I'm desperate for chocolate. No-one else to get up if DS screams in the night and I have a bad chest infection. And at weekends its same - me all day and all night. I never have a lie in, ever. I have the complete responsibility for DS - no-one shares the decision making or shares the emotional load - no-one to take him out for a walk when I'm so stressed that I'm about to lose it.

I'm really not complaining, honest, I'm in this position by choice. But ask someone who isn't in their own by choice, who used to be in a couple and ask if they think its harder alone.

there was a time when we were moving down south that we had two houses - i still had my job and house and kids - dh moved down south to his new job etc - and i wouldn't move until i got a job.

anyway - this lasted for months and months.

eventually i packed eldest ds off to live with dh until i got there

parenting alone isn't simply simmply the removal of one parents finances. its the removal of a support system, an advice system, and emotional support, a practical ...go out and get some calpol from teh 24 hour tesco becuase hes burning up....support....its the adult supervisor whilst you go out dancing with yer mates, is the person to look after you and the kids when you are ill. the person to share the parenting with, doctors appointments, cuddles after a fall, bedtime routine, you bath them , whilst i ramd him a story,.....yadd yadda

the person to share the chores with.

much more than finances. too simplistic, i dont have the foggiest what its like forlone parents - but hats off to you - you have it twice as hard as me on half the income.

conniedescending - when I was a lone parent and working, I was in the position of having a greater disposable income than I do now I'm married and had the time to enjoy it.

I was fortunate and had housing association housing (small flat) so paid a peppercorn rent. Family lived nearby so had access to very helpful childcare and got lovely tax credits. When working part time (loads of hours over a few days) this was the BEST compromise ever, as had time AND a bit of money. Also all the bills including food were smaller. Only had one DC though - probably makes a big financial difference.

Was worse off when purely on benefits - just enough money to make ends meet, BUT had stack loads of time with my beautiful child.

It is ironic that now I am an 'honest' woman (am joking, before people remove my head - have to laugh sometimes) I do have less disposable income, despite working my nads off, as mortgage is bigger, so I enjoy more living space, bills are bigger, food bills are bigger, council tax is definitely BIGGER and child care costs are HUGE.

Also sometimes experience more stress now as I could just do what the heck I liked when I was a singleton - didn't have to do / discuss / think about another adult or their feelings and could just be IYSWIM.

Life is complicated and generally hard, but quite a lot of fun too.

Also depends how much you earn. DH and I both earn reasonable wages, and work very hard for our money (as do most people). Often we are out of the house by 7.15am and not back until after 6pm, in my case, or 7.30pm in DH's case. BUT because we earn, we get no benefits / tax credits etc as our joint income is too high, so effectively I get to take home about 5K a year - about 1/4 of what I earn after paying for all the costs of working eg childcare, extra car to get there, clothes I wouldn't bother to buy if at home etc etc. Am looking to see if we would be better off with a different work/life balance eg is it worth spending these many hours working and then doing when I get home for the money? Would being FT SAHM with a few smaller jobs that take me out of the tax brackets be more useful and bring in an equivalent amount of cash?? - BUT I accept we are in an amazing position to even be faced with that choice.

Too much breast beating from all sides...being a lone parent is not often a choice, BUT there are some benefits to it - not the DSS kind.

IMVHO and experience you only have to deal with things in life from your own perspective.

Statistically you are likely to LIVE longer than a coupled or married woman.

Generally if you DO stay out of work, you have a fantastic amount of time to enjoy your kids.

If you do work, it's tough (I've been there) BUT any working mother would tell you it's tough, because juggling motherhood and additional wage earning work is hard.

It is usually financially challenging, but lots of couples find making ends meet difficult as living is incredibly expensive!

I'd like to see less worrying - everybody makes choices within the remits and limits of their lives. It is the individuals responsibility to live with those choices or make different ones...

Oh - the extra pair of hands thing does make things easier, but my ex NEVER changed a nappy or did any hands on stuff, so it depends on the QUALITY of the other party.

Just because someone HAS a partner doesn't automatically mean that partner helps or is useful, in some cases they actually add to the work load as they don't help and just make a mess and spend the money etc etc

Thinking all husbands or partners are Mary Poppins is a bit like believing all lone parents are useless, sponging layabouts, which isn't the case...

I think there's a danger that we're confusing two issues here. One is the SP vs DP debate, where I don't think anyone could deny that it's harder to raise a child on your own GENERALLY, although it depends very much on who the parents are...some people are a positive hindrance!

But the DM (and I'm not defending them ,I hate the rag) is focusing purely on the financial, and taking the view that the government should be encouraging couples to stay together and get married to promote stable family units. Now whether you disagree with that or not, the fact is that the current benefits and tax system does NOT encourage that in low income families, as when you are near or under the thresholds, it is very possible that you are better off as a SP. And it's the lower income families to whom a difference of a few quid makes the most difference.

does that make sense?

I agree LMD.

looks like I killed the thread again....

i agree with you ld

bb99 excellent posts

I agree LMD.

Good posts BB99 and LittleMyDancing

I don't think it is right that anyone, especially my sister and her DP be financially penalised if he moves in. That does not mean I think single mothers undeserving.

When you are on a low income, as my sister is, that few quid is the difference between being able to make ends meet and not. Why punish people for providing a stable family unit?

oooo riven are you a Bristol girl? Me too!

references to Cribbs Causeway are a dead giveaway....

agree with you though, the DM is rubbish. The only reason they pretend to care about whether hard working low income families are worse off is so they can use it as a stick to beat

a) the Labour government
b) single mothers
c) immigrants and refugees

tsk.

Riven - I don't know, I will check with her. To soothe my concerns she explained to me in detail how and why she was financially better off when her XP moved out (better off in every other way too). I find the whole tax credits system very confusing but she seems to understand it!

Her new DP is also on a low income so I don't know if that makes a difference.

But think how much better it will be when we have.....Cabot Circus....ta-daaaa!

A monument to consumerism that literally blocks out the light at the bottom of the M32, just in time for the recession.

yay.

can't make the Friday meet, unfortunately, we have playgroup.