The olympic torch and pro Tibet protests

[tinylady]

I think it is fantastic that their voices have been heard

Imagine we go back 10 years and Iraq has been awarded the games. Saddam organises the torch to parade through London.

Would you support that? Would you think it was fine for Iraq to have the games?

What China has done is at least as equal as anything Iraq/Saddam did. But for some reason its ok, 'cos its China.

it helps tibetans that there is no footage on television associated with the games in china in which we are not reminded of the horrors being commited there and the unlawful occupation.

of course it does. it publicises the issue.

civil protest has always been about causing maximum (non-violent) disruption.

But it helps Tibetans to have publicity of their plight raised. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity - the world has ignored the situation for over 50 years now! While a mass genocide is carried out under an illegal occupation.

It helps Tibetans to have any amount of discomfort put onto China. And whats happened today and other days is not making Chinese officials very happy!

x posts!

By supporting the Games, I am not unilaterally supporting everything China does politically.

China holding the Olympics is not by any means some kind of worldwide referendum. It's an international athletic competition.

If you're willing to do something, direct your energy where it matters...

I'm sorry but the Games has become so much more than a sporting event. If it was confined to 2 or 3 weeks of sporting events then I'd agree with you.

But all the fanfare, etc that goes with it makes it so much more than that. Its hugely influenced by politics. Today was a political event, not a sporting event. It was hardly a 300metre sprint to see who the best athlete in the world is, was it? Pure polotics - even the UK prime minister was there to greet it!

And they have been directing their energy elsewhere for the last 50 years. Unfortunately it hasn't got them anywhere.

If you'd tried talking for the last 50 years without anyone listening then I'm sure you'd seize an opportunity like this as well.

Charities and groups have spent years trying to raise awareness for the people of Tibet and it has had little effect. The Chinese government are unused to people being allowed to protest and they lose 'face' when such negative news footage is streamed worldwide and shines the spotlight on them this way.

So many people do not know the true and full extent of what has happened in Tibet and now if my snatching the torch from some ex Blue Peter presenting and thus 'making a twat of themselves' means that just one person questions why there is so much emotion and passion and rage surrounding the olympics and actually looks father intot he situation then IMO that is not a bad thing. I for one would be more than happy to make a complete and utter twat of myself if it had the slightest, tiniest chance of making a difference for the oppressed nation.

Personally I find kidnapping the Panchen Lama - a then 6 year old Tibetan boy who in the past 11 years has not been seen since - forcing Tibetan children to shoot their own parents and humiliating and killing Buddhist Monks and nuns ? to name justa few atrocities - is far, far the more heinous crime compared to what the protesters are doing by 'inconveniencing Londoners'.

Great post geek

I don't see how it inconvenienced Londoners either

I was in central London today and I wasn't remotely inconvenienced. Would have happily put up with quite substantial inconvenience - far more "inconvenient" to be Tibetan. The Olympic torch relay is a hugely symbolic event, it's not just about sport. So I'm all in favour of as much protesting as possible - it's a highly visible means of challenging the Chinese government's actions. But absolutely not a protest against the Chinese people - it's a dictatorship, after all

it was great! though surprised no one used a super soaker.

china banned the bbc images though (what a surprise) though alot of chinese now has access to the www so hopefully they can see it .

I was with the pro-Tibet protesters outside Downing Street today and I can assure you that every one of the thousand people there knew exactly what they were protesting against. There were a fair few Chinese refugees there in our crowd joining in.

It has given untold publicity to the plight of the Tibetan people, being the top news story all day.

Please explain how Londoners were inconvenienced?

Just returned to this thread. I can't believe some of the stuff on here! FFS how narrow minded / how much of a Connie Huq superfan can you be to object to this? It's in the headlines and I take my hat off to all those who have been involved today. And to those who managed slightly less emotive posts than mine.
NB not very impressed by R4 reporting this as "anti Chinese" protestors though

I don't think that even connie really objected did she?

yes agree there is an awful lot of nonsense on this thread.

I for one was very proud of all the people that turned out to protest today.

It's quite ironic that S. Redgrave was chatting about the boycott in 1980 against the Moscow Olympics.....as Russia was still in Afghanistan...

and the other thing I see is the economy and politicians still doing BIG trade with China, and making big money out of it..but hen we expect athletes earning bugger all being expected to pass up their one chance of glory..as a "protest"??? Give me a break.

the situation is more than i can understand really.

china has a weird history though, in a way the amount of export they do now really helps the poorer chinese people doesn't it?

agree. agree that games should go ahead with protests loud and clear and public voicing of disapproval from all governments and spokesman like figures.

malovitt and all those others who protested...

Thank you.
You helped show the world that not everyone turns a blind eye to what is going on in China and Tibet. That it is not tacitly condoned. That some slight inconvenience is really worth it because now so much of the world (but not sadly so many in China) will once again be reminded of the torture and the suppression that occurs. We can't turn a blind eye just because 'it was a nice day out' or 'my child was forced to face the truth that not all of humanity is nice.' You once again enforced that our country is a democracy. We can show how we feel, even if not everyone is bothered by it.

Thank you.

protesting peacefully is one thing, we have freedom of speech in this country and people should have the right to do that. But grabbing the torch/getting yourself arrested really doesn't help your cause.

Those few idiots have helped to take the attention away from what they were protesting about. Were the headlines about Tibet? no, they were about the torch being grabbed and the individuals responsible being wrestled to the ground. Tibet is just an afterthought in the reporting process.

I personally don't think that politics should be brought into sport. Fine if our governments had imposed sanctions against China it would be reasonable to expect the games not to be held there, but I don't see while the athletes should be expected to boycott the olympics and give up their chance to compete while the governments do nothing.

I was talking to dh about that wannaBe. I agree that the governments should be imposing sanctions. At the same time if our government were to withdraw the olympic team then it would be a state sanctioned protest. I'm not sure that would show the same sort of democracy as a flood of athletes making an individual decision to withdraw.