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The Retreat of Reason - full text to download here

7 replies

Monkeytrousers · 04/04/2008 23:14

It's in the news everywhere

here

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Kevlarhead · 07/04/2008 23:55

Sounds like one of the lecturers I never had at uni. He blamed "rampant political correctness" and a "politically correct elite" for his being fired from his lecturing job.

I reckon it was because he suggested that blacks were genetically predisposed to be stupid, and it was okay to have sex with under-age teenagers if they were of 'above-average' intelligence.

I got told I drove in a 'politically correct' manner the other day. I'm assuming it was because I drove at 30mph in a built up area, slowing slightly when I went past a primary school (footballs coming over the fence?). I mean, WTF?

Political correctness is a dead concept. There is bollocks (of the black bin bags are offensive type) and there are the suspicious rantings of people who think the world would be better if then ran it, and could clamp down on anything they dislike. If I hear someone call something 'politically correct', my default response is to assume they are a fuckwit until proven otherwise.

Whoo... that got more heated than I intended...

Monkeytrousers · 10/04/2008 20:43

Eh?

Well, in spite of your lecturer being a stupid racist nob, that isn't what this essay says.

You haven't read it have you?

hmm?

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Kevlarhead · 10/04/2008 23:43

Yes, I did read it. I read about how saying "You can't say that!" is a mark of political correctness stamping on free expression. although I usually hear it being said when someone's being rude.

Also read that Spiderman and The Incredibles are pioneering celluloid rebuffs to the PC liberal elite.

Kevlarhead · 11/04/2008 00:10

"Political correctness causes widespread unease with capitalism, which makes governments less likely to pursue capitalist alternatives to established policies in various areas, such as health and education"

This is the bit that causes me concern. I'm uneasy with the idea of free-market capitalism being the driving force behind running schools. Largely this is because I'm sceptical of the connection between a company's share price and the value of the products and services it provides. Look at Enron or HBoS. Both had share prices wildly out of line with the value of what they produced. If an Education Company's share price is high, does that mean it's suceeding in turning out bright, well adjusted and educated kids? Or did it's shares leap on the strength of a rumour spread by a couple of insider traders? Edison schools (a for-profit education provider) in the US sold off textbooks, computers, lab supplies and musical instruments in order to save money, and proposed to fire 70 staff and get senior pupils to do an hour's admin a week to cover.*

I work for a publicly owned company. The management ethos seems to be to charge the highest possible fees, reduce wages as much as possible, do the shoddiest work the customer won't reject, and trouser the biggest bonus possible. I'm uneasy about that kind of ethos being behind a school. According this piece, this is political correctness in action, and I'm a member of the liberal elite.

*The Corporation- Joel Backan, Ch.5 The source isn't exactly on-message.

Kevlarhead · 11/04/2008 00:39

Still with capitalism, half the problems of government today (spin, secrecy, PFIs, costly logos, torrents of marketing bullsh1t) are down to the use of corporate ideas of image control, brand management and marketing being adopted by central government. I think we need to eliminate some of the corporatist ideas already in use before adopting any more ideas.

"Spiderman II was an allegory on how, if you are sure of your own virtue and you have power, you have a right and a duty to use it, an extraordinarily un-PC (and very neo-conservative) message."

It's also a highly altruistic message; Parker messes up his life repeatedly by trying to acheive work/life/superhero balance. When was the last time you heard 'unPC' and 'altruistic' in the same sentence?

My original point was that the authors of this thing seem to have a different definition of what constitutes 'Political Correctness' than the definition I see used in the media and around me on a daily basis.

As you said, the lecturer was a lecturer "a stupid racist nob". And as far as he's concerned, you're member of the oppresive liberal elite for saying that. I read about PC drink drive laws. PC anti-smoking during pregnancy campaigns. PC speed limits. I saw a man jump on a bus's descending wheelchair ramp, and tell a women in a wheelchair "It's PC scum like you which are dragging this country down!" when she objected.

Far large numbers of people (or the loud ones at any rate) anti-Polical Correctness means being a prick at all times. Hence my misgivings about it, and the fact I'm apparently a member of the liberal elite for having misgivings.

Monkeytrousers · 11/04/2008 09:32

""Political correctness causes widespread unease with capitalism, which makes governments less likely to pursue capitalist alternatives to established policies in various areas, such as health and education""

It doesn't say free-market capitalism here though. If it did you would be right to be concerned.

This isn't a paper about laissez-faire economics.

So are you asserting that the whole premise is flawed and that there should be limits to free speech?

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Monkeytrousers · 11/04/2008 09:38

"I read about PC drink drive laws. PC anti-smoking during pregnancy campaigns. PC speed limits."

These are no PC, these are based on stats and facts not emotion - that's the distinction.

"I saw a man jump on a bus's descending wheelchair ramp, and tell a women in a wheelchair "It's PC scum like you which are dragging this country down!" when she objected."

This essay is taking in the huge middle ground and is an argument not from emotion but from reason - unlike your ranting man above. There are idiots of every description, pro-PC and anti-PC alike, if they base their arguments on their personal predjudices.

Again however, that is not what this essay is about.

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