Drink driver, 13, arrested..I kid you not...

[TumbleflumpDancingBum]

local news today

question at the end of the article

'does the law need to get tougher?'

no bloody parents do!

How? We're not allowed to. Getting tough is a breach of human rights. There was a thread recently about a case in the USA where a mother listening in to her daughter's phone calls (where a criminal act was being discussed) was ruled inadmissable evidence in court as it was an invasion of the girl's privacy.

Presumably, if she was arranging to go and meet a paedophile in order to be raped and murdered by him, her mother would also not be expected to listen in and save her from herself. Fostermum described how she's not allowed to send her charges to their room for bad behaviour.

In that environment, how can anyone parent effectively? What's amazing is not that so many kids are out of control, but that so many aren't!

Sadly I work with these kids and I think something does need to be done to get tougher because the bottom line is that NOTHING scares these kids. There's no deterent to stop them doing it. I recently worked with a child 1 yr older who had TWOCed and crashed at 90 mph into central reservations on dual carriageway! The child showed no remorse and wasn't bothered that they were being placed in a secure centre! When the kids say they don't want to go back to secure centres and it's not fair that they're there it makes me lol. I really have to bite my tongue sometimes. Get tougher, that's my opinion.

I don't think it is possible to teach these kids the error of their ways, if this kind of behaviour is accepted and viewed as normal by their communities/family/peers I can't see what sort of punishment would deter them, is it not seen as 'cool' by these kids to be in trouble with the police! I think it is down to parents to instill morales and discipline from an early age, teach them what is acceptable behaviour and what is clearly not! This boy sounds like a fking ahole, no doubt his parents aren't too different either!

I do agree that parents have to be much tougher on kids like this, but from the very start. I am now teaching the YOs who have done this kind of thing in the past. The men (as they are 18 by time I get them) often have no remorse for such crimes at all, and several do not even see prison as a final punishment. For example, three of the YOs were discussing what they would do when released (parole is due on the 29th for these after a 4 or 5 years inside). One said he was going to go and sign on, and try and get a house, so he could get his girlfirend and child to move in. Seemmed interested in family life and behaving himself. Other las scorned him and sniggered that "doles for pnces" and "I'd rather rob someone than have dole; that's how I will get my money". I nearly flipped, until regained professional countenance. Did report him though as he genuinely meant it.

There seems to be a whole new generation of kids who seem to think that they are so superior that they never have to strive to achieve anything in life, if they want something then instead of working hard for it they can just take it from someone else who has! I would be furious if it was our car which this little sod had 'twoced'

Hulababy - I take my hat off to you - working with these people must be soooo hard. I am sure you get some who turn themselves around (please God!) but the story you just told - I'd have steam coming out of my ears!!!

Luckily Jools that doesn't happen much. The adult inmates are normally very nice and polite, and just enjoy a chat. Some of the YOs try and act a bit more "clever" but TBH it is normally only when they first start the class. After a session or two they seem to realise what I will and will not oput up with. Generally though it is a nice environment. I don't ask what they've done and remain oblivious at times (others tell you themselves). And they are geranerlly very nice towards me, regardless of their past crimes. I have to treat them normally though, not as criminals obviously.

Have to say though that I did almost lose it that day - it was the session I ahd with them following having had my wallet stolen from ym bag whilst out shopping, so it was very close to home.

BUT I don't know the answer to these kids and how to stop them. Wish I did. Has to be much tougher consequences, better parenting int he early years to start with thogh.