WTF Rishi Sunak abolishes Alevels

[Icedlatteplease]

Just what our kids need!!!.

It's hard enough to get maths teachers to GCSE let alone A levels. Most kids get the maths they need for day to day live by the start of secondary. Forcing kids who hate maths to remain in classrooms longer than they already need is wasting resources that could be better used on kids who actually want to do the subject

It's an absolute Joke. First time in my life I'll be voting Labour

I disagree

Most kids by 16 have a good idea of the subjects they hate. Many kids have a good idea by 14. One of the joy of Alevels is studying subjects with kids who also want to be there and are interested in the subject.

No do i think continental systems are beneficial. If I was in France, I couldn't even have done the combination of Alevels I did because the system is too prescriptive.

But tbh I have less problem with kids studying more subjects (presumably in less depth) than I do forcing kids to "learn" English and maths to a standard they will never ever need, with resources we as a country do not have, putting off those kids who do want to do the subject perpetuating the problem.

But yes hopefully it will never happen.

GCSEs (the merger of GCE O levels and CSEs) was a work in progress for many years, straddling both the Labour administrations of the mid/late 70s and the early Thatcher years. It became essentially apolitical, with both administrations agreeing on the need for reform and the need for thorough prep work which didn't fit electoral timelines.

I wonder if the current parties can be grown up enough to work together in that way now?

And the apprenticeships need to be fit for purpose. The experience we have had so far is that the approved training providers are a bunch of con artists who are getting tons of money from the government for running sub-par courses 'taught' by morons (this is certainly the case for IT). We've been astounded. Luckily the company itself is great at training and DS is completing the course as a box ticking exercise even though he clearly knows far more than his poor excuse for a tutor.

Yes

although I do believe we should make it easier to reenter maths to a higher level later. All to often you see kids who hated maths in school realise they might like maths and can actually do it once they have seen and used it in a practical setting. Catching kids/young adults when they actually are ready to study maths would be so much more effective.

Hope not.

I hope the other parties realise what an un-implimentable nightmare the whole idea is.

Not long ago, they reformed all the A levels to introduce more (alleged) difficulty and depth.

They are now going to have to undo this. That's a difficult sell....

@Titsywoo yes - the apprenticeship system needs a LOT of improvement. I would prefer the government focused on that.

The Tories know they have lost the election
They're just tinkering now to distract from all the really awful environmentally disastrous shit they're getting up to for their oil company mates for their remaining months in power.

Most jobs will now have an element of data analysis required. You can’t do it if your maths ended at GCSE. This is a good first step - hopefully future governments will be able to push for the extra funding needed

When the GCSE exams are taken students will have had Maths lessons for 12 years already. After 12 years no one should be at a standard where they "fail" maths (sen excluded obviously).
There should be more early intervention of maths (and English language) at a younger age if needed. Not waiting until the age of 16.

Yes me too.

DD(17) wants to work, she hates the idea of student loan debt, and has ADHD so really finds in class study a real challenge.

But at predicted a's and bs finding apprenticeships of an equivalent standard bloody impossible.

All I can do to persuade her not to drop out and work her weekend job indefinitely.

Can you please explain what you mean by this? I just can’t see how it can be true that ‘most’ jobs will require data analysis.

Also, my job very much does involve understanding, interpreting and analysing data - I have no problems with this, despite not studying maths beyond GCSE!

Of course you can. I did maths O level and do data analysis as part of my job. It’s not rocket science.

Most jobs require post GCSE standard data handling? Really not very sure that that is true.

I have just got depressed reading the information. This suggests students have more teacher led hours (LOL) so that some of the independent learning time is cut. So everything is to be spoon fed. No more independent learning. How does that set them up for HE? The constant comparisons to other countries are invidious , too - unless they follow suit and get rid of high stakes exams. Fat chance.

This suggests to me rather a lot of hours of 'supervised study'...

Snap.

He;s announced lots of things, none of which he'll deliver but it'll keep the hard-right press happy tomorrow.
We'll all forget about it next week, that's what they rely on.

I've just read it and on principle I think the ideas are sound. Will be a lot of work for all in education and cost tons though. Interested in the streamlining gcses less exams thing?

There are multiple issues with the narrow focus of A levels in England and it does need review. It's bad for bright kids who excel at both science and humanities who have to make a hard choice at 16 about which subjects to study. It's bad for the less able kids who don't have a respected alternative to the academic A levels. And it's very bad for the country to be led by a group of politicians who generally have little if any scientific education post 16 in a world that is driven by technological advances (the worst impact of C. P. Snow's two cultures).

As PPs have said most if not all other countries recognise that a broad education for as long as possible is good for both the state and the individual. So there are plenty of models the English could copy, whether that is Scottish Highers, the IB or something else. It would require the Universities to change to a 4 year degree system but for the students that would mean they have more chance to study different subjects for longer and make a more informed decision during their degree as to what they want their final degree to be.

So Rishi Sunak is right to start a conversation about this but a party conference of the governing party so close to an election they are expected to lose is not really the time or place.

If this thread demonstrates anything, it's maybe that studying politics should be mandatory to 18. These are dead cat policies to distract you, the devil isn't in the detail, it's in what you're not paying attention to.

And I don't say that lightly.

This is a govt that knows its on its last legs and won't be in power again for a decade or so and is determined to slash and burn it's way to the bitter end

Seeing it already. As manual jobs get replaced with AI more data analysts and data scientists are being hired to ensure the algorithms are working properly. As nobody builds AI algorithms (you buy them) you check their performance through data. For the work currently required as a data analyst you need, as a minimum, A Level maths.

You will not have done modern data analysis with an O level.

And the people currently doing the manual jobs that you mention will not be the same people as the data analysts that you say are replacing them!

We can only hope.

Sounds like they're just coming out with any old crap right now.

See I hate this. Failing GCSE maths absolutely does not mean you fail maths.

In real life you can use a calculator for anything maths related. Noone cares if you can't remember the seven times table because you can use a calculator. If you want to know the area of a circle with diameter whatever, you put the question into Google and it will give you the answer. Same for pythagorus and trig.

The way we study gcse maths is completely irrelevant to modern life. You can absolutely do maths and fail GCSE

Although its interesting you mention SEN. Actually the lower sets are often packed full of both diagnosed or undiagnosed SEN. Often kids with ADHD ( diagnosed or undiagnosed) who absolutely can do maths and are actually quite good but find everything about a traditional classroom impossible. Improving SEN intervention especially for dyscalcula would do wonders.

Don’t agree with any of this. It’s an opportunity, rare in school systems, to study 3 or 4 subjects in great detail - level of detail not experienced many uni degrees and you won’t see again until post-grad.

Anyone who is good at both humanities and sciences can choose to study both.

A shallower, scantier acquaintance with more numerous subjects is not necessarily an advantage.

I don’t think another 2 years of science among many other subjects will make any difference to the calibre of our politicians. Generally politicians poor grasp of society and history is far more of a problem.

I did 4 A levels + an extra language and general studies lessons in sixth form. So we covered a lot more than simply the subjects we were examined on.