Anti-depressants "of little use"

[morningpaper]

Anti-depressants 'of little use'

"New generation anti-depressants have little clinical benefit for most patients, research suggests. A University of Hull team concluded the drugs actively help only a small group of the most severely depressed."

I'm not surprised by these findings - I took antidepressants and various other drugs when I had a severe depressive episode over 10 years ago.

I know that people (incl. GPs) want to 'fix' depression but I strongly feel that drugs don't do it. Prozac especially was hailed as the 'wonder drug' at that time but it had no effect whatsoever.

Coming off the drugs was a massive boost to my ego (being dependent on antidepressants etc. I'm sure reminds you that you are 'mad' every morning and evening that you are popping them).

I was 'rescued' by 2 years of psychotherapy. I know it is expensive but when I see friends taking antidepressants I feel really frustrated that they don't spend money on therapy or counselling instead. People think it is 'too expensive' but then they are happy to get signed off work for months. Argh. When I rule the world I will make cheap therapy available to everyone.

Anyway that's my rant of the day

petlamb-that is why the drug companies have been covering up alot of the findings in clinical trials.

Monkeytrousers-i know what a theory is,thanks.why are you so adamant that the latest reports must be wrong?have you found some hard evidence which proves beyond doubt that clinical depression is caused by a lack of serotonin?if you have then please share it,as i have only been able to find reports that it is thought to be caused by that,but that there is no actual way of testing brain serotnin levels in a living person(as i mentioned before).

I think this is very irresponsible journalism.

Imagine you're in a black pit of despair, you pluck up the courage to go to the doctors and try ADs thinking that this could be the one thing that brings you back to normality.

Then you read this? FFS.

I think there is still a lot of stigma against mental illness, that it's the result of a 'weak mind' (ridiculous of course) and this report panders to it.

janos-that is the problem,though,what if you think they are going to help but they dont?that could lead to thoughts of 'i'm so crap even pills cant help me,i am obviously a hopeless case..etc'

is there such a thing as responsible journalism,then?

Why are you so adamant that they are so right?

At least I am a consistant skeptic!

"is there such a thing as responsible journalism,then?"

Hmm,, good question.

I suspect it made a good headline and that's all which is what I think is 'irresponsible'. No thought about the potential reaction but then that's nothing new, is it?

Its true that they might not help..some people have said as much above. But equally they migth so why not give it a try? ADs can be a lifesaver - literally - for many people.

My concern is that people who may have considered it will be put off, people who have started taking the drugs may suddenly stop (and that can cause a terrible reaction) etc.

I recall there being some sort of scare about the contraceptive pill (some forms) around 12 years back..(showing my age there), so no doubt similar scares around other drugs will emerge.

That's unfair, Janos. The health journos who wrote the stories will have thought about how to present them. I'm sure most if not all will have included a par about not stopping ADs suddenly and seeing your doctor if you are concerned.

The story was covered because it is news and the researchers concerned released it to the press. What do you think journalists should do, suppress information because it might be inconvenient for the drug companies? Give a false impression of the effectiveness of medicines?

MT-i wasnt a skeptic atall untill 3 weeks ago when my doctor gave me drugs to combat the SE's of the drugs i was already on...then i started looking into it and read loads of reports like this,then the next thing i know they are in the news.

anyway,im not convinced they are right,i am just hanging off the fence on the side of anti-anti depressants at the moment due to my own personal experience.

to be fair to the media,the articles i have read on this have all had the 'do not stop taking any medication without consulting your doctor' warning in them.

It's interesting that many are suggesting that the only options are drugs or therapy, or maybe a mixture of the two. I am sure I have read something along the lines that exercise has been proven to be as effective for mild to moderate depression as drugs. Unfortunately I don't know more about it than that, but from personal experience I can vouch for the mood-enhancing effects of exercise.

I come from a family of depressives, and have often had that feeling of holding it at bay, but never actually succumbed. I do exercise most days and am sure that this has pulled me through some of the worst times. This is purely anecdotal of course, and I understand that to tell someone in the blackest pit of despair to pull themselves together and go for a jog round the block would be completely crass.

However I do think the lack of real physical exertion in most peoples lives (I mean sweaty, heart-pumping type of thing) must contribute to the stress, anxiety and of course obesity that seems endemic nowadays.

43today I know what you mean, but certainly for me the idea that I sucummed to a mental health problem is a bit rude really

I really think that people need to be assessed properly if they present to their GP with feeling rubbish because not all feeling sad is depression but it CAN be a mental health problem if that makes any sense?

I know I could go tomorrow and get shed loads of anti-depressants but its not right for me, nor would it be safe tbh but it would be so easy and I am not sure how good that is.

No smurfgirl I take your point. I think that full-blown clinical depression and other such conditions are not something you could 'stave off' with exercise and I didn't mean to imply that.

However I do think that exercise can help anxiety and stress, without the necessity for drugs.

43today-i think you are right about excersise.it has certainly helped me,as i used to open a bottle of wine as soon as the kids went to bed,now i put an excersise dvd on instead to wind down at the end of the day.
i think there is alot to be said for diet.a lack of certain nutrients can make things worse.but gps dont deal with things like that-they are they simply to try and treat symptoms,which i suppose is the basis of all modern medicine.

Divastrop- not quite sure why you are saying that the drug companies have been "covering up the information". In the Hull study, they looked at data from both published and unpublished clinical trials, and the unpublished data was obtained from the FDA. If the FDA had it, then the drug companies must have supplied it to the FDA in the first place! The FDA had all the data and approved the drugs, so blame them!

I didn't mind the article at all.

What I did mind was Jeremy Vine doom mongering with it again, inviting every idiot from idiotland to call in and have a pop.

Frankly I think that talking theraphies are a total waste of time for clinical depression. I can see the point when the person has reactive depression.

There is a difference between someone who is depressed because life is a pile of sh!t and someone who simply has a major chemical imbalance in the brain. Anti depressants are helpful for people who are depressed for no reason.

If you have someone who is dreadfully unhappy because their wife has left them and they have lost their job, their feelings are normal. Prehaps its not unreasonable to feel suicidal when your life is falling appart.

What is needed is better diagnosis. Prehaps the patient should have an hour home visit from a CPN before the decision is made about the best treatment option.

Such decisions can not be made in a 10 minute appointment.

reallytired - not everyone has reactive depression because their life is really shit - its not black and white like that, things that for some people would have no impact have a huge impact on other people

I agree wholeheartedly RT!

It is disgraceful journalism.

It is an article that has been published in a highly suspect location that has drawn media attention for little scientific basis.

If you want to read a helpful metaanalysis, try the 2005 Cochrane review of treatments for depression.

I can also thank these drugs for my very existence. But I would also like to think that I am capable of reading the trial results.

There is no great cover up of data. There is no conspiracy. Pharmaceuticals may be profit oriented, true, but it doesn't work like that.

well said mylittlepudding

the ignorance and irresponsibility of the media is almost incredible

mylittlepudding, publication bias is real and recognised. And Glaxo did hide studies showing Seroxat actually increased the risks of suicide amongst some patients, especially children.

This particular study may be flawed - there are plenty of flawed studies out there. But it is simply not true to say drugs companies tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth all the time.

Seroxat doesn't have a license for children I don't think?....

Publication bias is different to suggesting there are all these studies proving ineffectiveness that are being kept from us out there.

It's not licensed for children now. Thanks to some dogged researchers and the journalists who covered the story. But it was used in thousands of children in the US and also in the UK IIRC. Glaxo (and the Royal College of Psychiatrists) spent years trying to silence any criticism, issuing flat denials of any problem - remember when the line was that SSRIs were not addictive at all and any problems with withdrawal were just imagination?

I had severe clinical depression and I think the anti depressants I took did nothing but help. I took them for 18 months and I had no problems with addiction. I think that anti depressants are addictive if they are prescribed incorrectly and care is not taken to wean the patient off them.

I tried talking theraphies, but they were a complete and utter waste of time. There was nothing wrong with my life, husband or baby. I found that councellors and health visitors were condesending and patronising. What helped me was true life long friends.

My problem was neurological. My brain had been messed up by the hormones associated with child birth and breastfeeding. Taking sertaline helped reset the balance.

In the past communites were closer. People had their parents, aunties, uncles and cousins living close by. Churches provided a social network for people.

Rather than paying expensive councellors or prescribing pills excessively I think its better to find ways of getting people to make long term friends.

This is obviously personal to me - but it sounds so much like you are saying unless it can be fixed with tablets you should just suck it up and talk to friends.

For me (and many others) therapy has been invaluable and much much needed. My close friends are scrummy and lovely but my own experience of this is so far from anything they can relate to or understand that whilst they can be nice to me they cannot fix me. God they would be terrified by the stuff I think sometimes.

And I love my fiance, I love my home, my parents, my life choices but I still continue to have enduring mental health problems. But its not just chemical - and its not something pills can fix.

But does CBT fix long term mental problems? People who can afford it often have councelling or CBT for years and years. Inspite of long term councelling they still have enduring mental health problems.

I think that councelling has the benefit of giving a desperate person someone to talk to. It can help someone with reactive depression collect their faults together.

If someone is severely depressed then their spouse can become completely overloaded. The advantage of councelling is that it can prevent marriages breaking down under the stress of one person suffering depression.

My personal experience of depression is real. For me councelling was a total waste of time. What did I have to say to the councellor? I had no deep seated reason why I did not want to eat and could not sleep. I looked like an anorexic even though I had no desire to lose weight. It is ridiculous searching for skeletons that aren't there.

Anti depressants are great. I have been off medication now for coming up to four years.

wondered when id see this 'story' on here.

my fear of therapy is that there will be no answers. i know a bloke beeen in therapy for 3o fkin years fgs.
ive had psychotherapy and the only words she ever said to me were 'thats our time up for this week, see you next week'. was devastating to finally reach for what i thought was my only ray of hope and have my hopes dashed.
that was years ago.
then more recently i had talky type therapy and the woman spent the entire time telling me it was all my mothers fault which only makes things worse because now I am the mother. so is it all My fault from now on??
now... pah. meh. i dunno.
i am soon to try cbt. we'll see if thats any better.
i know one thing. im fucking sick of feeling like this.