What's your opinion on waterboarding?

[StripeyKnickersSpottySocks]

Do you agree that its a form of torture that should never be used? Has Bush finally lost the plot?

Or do you think that this proceedure has a place if its going to prevent another 9/11?

Some parts of the Islamic world are none too impressed with some parts of the western world.
Part of their reasoning is that they are treated with contempt and hypocrisy.
Torturing fellow human beings in order to prevent the kind of anger behind 9/11 doesn't really add up, does it?

It's clearly torture. Not only inhumane and cruel but bloody stupid - as if any claims made under torture have any value at all. It will not prevent terrorist attacks - what might have prevented 9/11 would have been straightforward things like paying attention when people contact the authorities saying it's a bit odd that these trainee pilots aren't interested in landing.

It is torture plain and simple. And they are torturing suspects who are 'innocent until proven guilty'

One of the reasons cited for going into war with Iraq was that Saddam used torture.
How is it right for the west to use torture but not the rest of the world? What double standards our governments have.

of course it's torture. calling it anything else is mealy-mouthed doublethink. this is a really interesting discussion on the subject - the thread starter actually subjected himself to it and describes the effects. it's quite horrific.

Torture
Hypocrisy

it's torture plain and simple. how can anyone think otherwise

personally I blame 24 and such like shows normalising the idea of 'but what if... and if your children were there and you could prevent it by squeezing this man etc'

as if

hellsbells link is really interesting. I'd never heard of 'waterboarding' until I opened this thread. To be honest I assumed it would be something like 'wakeboarding' and thought how could that be torture

I feel enlightened and shocked

I think its very scary to think that if that innocent Algerian pilot had been extradited to USA he could well have been subjected to it. Not that anyone ever should have this done to them. If Iraq had done this to captured US soldiers in the Gulf War I reckon America would have dropped an atom bomb.

It's a good question with, I think, two separate parts.

• is waterboarding a form of torture?
• can the use of torture ever be justified?

On the first point, it's very difficult to argue that it's not a form of torture in that it causes severe physical and mental pain and has been found to be torture by leading legal experts, politicians, military judges and intelligence officials.

On the second point, the international community (including United Nations, European Union and the Geneva Convention) has been absolutely unanimous in that freedom from torture is a fundamental human right. Not only that, it is one of the very few (alongside the right to life) from which there can be no derogation even in times of war.

I'd say that it, however, possible to justify the use of torture (conceptually) on very specific grounds, in the same way that you abrogate from the right to life, e.g. if an armed policeman sees someone who is about to shoot somebody else, they have the right to shoot and kill that person (an extension of the self defence argument). In principle, I imagine that you could make the same argument for torture, i.e. that if the use of torture will prevent an imminent and specific crime that would result in the death of someone else then that would be potentially justifiable. On a practical basis, however, I suspect that there would be virtually no cases that would meet those criteria.