culture of 1st cousin marriages causing birth defects in immigrants from rural pakistan.

[hecate]

the story is here

Ok, well, of course, if you restrict your gene pool, obviously over generations you are going to run into problems - that is a proven fact, fair enough.

I PMSL... how could he say it, directed specifically at people from Pakistan, with a straight face???

Let's take a look at what most people consider to be the 'indiginous population' of britain - that is, those who have been here for many generation.

Look first at the british royal family. I can't THINK of a more in-bred group - can you?

And the aristocracy - generation after generation of inter-marriages to secure estates, merge estates...pretty inbred there too.

And now lets go to rural britain. Bob marries Carol from next door and they set up home across the street. They have 2 kids, both of whom marry boys from the next street and set up home across town. each have a couple of kids, who marry folks they met at school. Their kids go to the same school their grandparents did and marry the children of their grandparents school friends. fast forward 10 generations of this and they all look like this with their knuckles dragging on the floor. People who move into the village are called 'outsiders' until they've been there 15 generations.

And then someone turns round and has a go at people from Pakistan because they intermarry.

Seriously. Come ON.

bang on hecate, my dad is one of 16 kids, qute a few of whom amried people with a particular surname..... I reckon that had I married from my hometown (dont think I did but DH's dad is adopted so who knows?) then there's a good chance we'd be related.

Always had to at my friends ex-fiance..... parents had same surname at birth, grew up in a village of 1000, and swore there was no relatinship- both kids ahd a level of SN.

Plus, my said hometown was noted as having the (supposedly i grant- but was a professional in field who told me) highest levels of incest and resultant issues in UK. And a very low Pakistani population, I note!

what a vile article. yucky attitudes towards race and disability.

Isn't it just, TC?

Peachy, I can relate. My parents are actually related - 2nd cousins once removed or something or other! And there are several more cross-overs within the extended family.

It's quite the norm in small villages.

Where I grew up, there were 4 main surnames on the estate!

the rural farming community I am from in Scotland is full of cousins marrying cousins and there are some er interesting individuals!

happens everywhere especially small communities - not fair to point the finger at people from Pakistan

Horrible attitudes about disability as well as race "Ms Cryer blamed a "medieval culture" of keeping wealth in the family and said some couples ignored warnings not to have more children despite the risks."

Parents chose to have children who might have a disability? Outrageous !

I'm going to get flamed for this, but the article doesn't look bad to me. It's true, families particularly from certain very traditional parts of the world, are more prone to genetic defects in their children because of the strong cultural traditional of repeatedly marrying first cousins. This is most likely among British religious groups among Muslims, esp. from the most isolated rural areas like very rural Pakistan. Other religous groups don't have as strong a tradition of maintaining close links with current family members, and some ethnic/religious groups eg Sikhs -- have very strong prescriptions against intermariage with known relatives. There is cultural denial about this problem. It can't be solved if it's not discussed.

Article last month, in addition to today's publicity.

Sorry, but "medieval culture of keeping wealth in the family"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Again I say...British Royal Family and the aristocracy anyone???

Pot meet kettle, kettle say hello to pot.

lljkk, I for one certainly wouldn't 'flame you' for pointing that out. In my OP I acknowledged the potential problems of inter-breeding. But it is HILLARIOUS when you consider that nobody is more in-bred than the indiginous populations of small villages in rural britain...and that there is also a great british tradition of wealthy and powerful families marrying each other...

Why did he not mention THAT? It is also a problem. Seriously, for example - everyone in my home town is related to everyone else and it shows. What does he have to say about that sort of set up all over the UK? Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch. Not a dicky bird.

Why is that? hmmmmmm I wonder........

lljkk - I'm not going to flame you either. It's the tone of the article that got me - rather than finding a reputable medical professional to comment, there's MPs commenting ooooh there's lots of brown faces on the children's ward, must be inbreeding.

echo lljkk - looks like i will be flamed too.
I would say the issues of marrying first cousins does require discussion at least. And not just for the pakistani community.

EXACTLY carrotnose..exactly

"not just for the pakistani community"

Yes.

Make a general debate over the importance of genetic - what's the best word - diversity??

That is totally, utterly, 100% NOT what he was doing. That is the problem.

I can think of a few villages in Wales with a similar problem and in Derbyshire too.....

Totally agree with you Hecate

I didnt feel that was the tone of the article TC. But unless relevant medical professionals feel that there is a safe arena to disscuss issues around inter-breeding their comments wont be published any time soon.

There is so much strong feeling around race/cultural issues at the moment anyway.

This isn't new news, doctors have expressed concerns for some time about intermarriage. In the Birmingham area in 2005 one in ten of all 'cousin' births ended in the death of the baby or serious disability. Presumably the MP's refer to such communities because that's who they represent in their constituencies.

FWIW, we spend holidays in upstate New York and the inbreeding there is terrible. There are people with disabilities the likes of which I haven't seen since I was a child.

In my ignorance I almost fell on the floor laughing when my midwife asked me if my husband was a close relative. then she explained why and I said 'oh'.

having said that, a good friend (white, well educated, etc.) is married to her cousin. I also know of Mennonite communities back home where they must marry inside their religion or move out of the community entirely.

and a town on an island community where few people moved out, that in a class of 30 kids nearly half had double first cousins.

I did laugh about the fact that for 3 ds's (born in a rural area as stated below) thre was no qustion about this (probably assumed we were related LOL), but here in Wales it was an actual stated question on the booking in form.

that was what i meant peachy, on the booking form. i think it must be fairly standard across the UK.

my dsis married our first cousin. it was not an arranged marriage. but it did have parents blessings, iyswim.
we joke that our kids should not get married. but honestly, how are we supposed to stop them if that is what they want to do?

iT'S NOT RIGHT THO' IS IS?

It's not advisable for any group to limit the genes floating around.

It's not right to single out only one of the groups of people who do it and, ahem, 'raise concerns'.

But certain Asian groups have something like 33% more genetic defects than the general UK population, is this also the case for the Derbyshire and Welsh villages that some of you mention? I suspect not.... It would also be fair to flag it up for a specific ethnic group if a lot of people are potentially affected, how many people in the villages compared to the total British Pakistani population?

Flag it up as an issue and point out that more of a certain group are affected. Not flag it up as an issue with sole reference to a certain group.

And I am seriously tempted to take you to my home town so you can see good old fashioned rural in-breeding in action!

oh. er. I don't mean that I'll take you to see in-breeding in action.

That would be pervy.

I mean to see the "I married my brother" look and meet the children that are so messed up that they enjoy throwing ducklings against walls and stamping on them.

hecate

have you ever been to Hoares?? As soon as the sun set OUT THEY CAME ohmigod.