Alan Bennett: Ban Public Schools

[DaDaDa]

Have we done this one yet?

In an ideal world, I agree with him.

lights blue touch paper, retires to safe distance with nice cup of tea and digestive biscuit

Surely the biggest barrier to choice is catchment areas? Not the 6% who pay.

Yes, I'm afraid I view moving renting etc to get to the 'right' schl in just the same light as private schls - not fair.

I totally agree that it isn't fair that some children have no choice but to attend their crappy catchment school. But what if their local school isn't crappy? What if,like mine,it's very good? Do you still think it's unfair that some parents can pay for nothing more than extra facilities? Because if you do then that's a different argument. That's like saying it's unfair that someone else can bring their kids upin a 5 bed house with lots of space to run around in because not everyone can.

Niceglasses: What is the difference between buying a sports car, a house fit for a footballer's wife and an education? Surely people can spend their money as they see fit?

cushion - we moved to nice area 4 years ago, but we choose to send our children to the local schools. It's partly why we moved. I'm just interested in the views of teachers, because DW always gets asked, "would you send your kids to the school where you teach?" To which our standard answer is "well, we're not in the catchment area, but if we were, it's the best one." Slightly cop-out answer, of course, because there's no way we'd choose to live in that catchment area.

swedes - I don't think education should be a "commodity", though.

I think we have got in the situaion where there are schools pple will move heaven and earth not to let their kids go to.

On a personal level, you can't blame them for that, they aren't horrible pple, far from it.

But where are we going with this? You leave that schl 5 more years with all those who can scrape tg enough money to ship out and you'll be left with an untouchable schl. We have them already.

And I don't think its that black and white. The friend I refer to passed up a very good schl to move 5 streets to go to an excellent one. Why? Whats the point? Why not go to your local one and make it better.

Of course it doesn't compare to houses and gardens. There will always be divides there and we can do something, but not much. But we can do something about this.

Swedes - because those things don't really effect how well you do in life.

A posh car ain't gonna guarantee you a brill education, lots of added opportunities, open doors etc.

"we have got in the situaion where there are schools pple will move heaven and earth not to let their kids go to"

Indeed - it used to be the other way round but it is getting that way.

Well I stillchose a house in the best catchment for resale purposes but that's a different story.

TBH, this is the first school I've ever taught in where I'd be happy for my kids to go there. It's a good school, esp the pastoral side of things which is important to me.

...It just doesn't have all the razzamatazz of the independent school; the music tuition, the sports facilities, the quality of the equipment. The level of their academic and probably social education would probably be about the same (fab teachers in both) but the independent school just offered more. Pure and simple.

UQD - FWIW neither do I. But I don't pay £30,000 net for a laugh. I pay it for my children to receive what I received compliments of the state grammar system. It should be the people who pay getting pissed off. It's real chip on the shoulder stuff and it pisses me off. I bet our household income before school fees is less than some of you who say you can't afford it and are complaining about not having the choice.

hmm, well it really is slightly more complicated than "it isn't fair"
and significant.

Niceglasses "A posh car ain't gonna guarantee you a brill education, lots of added opportunities, open doors etc."

Oh I thought the Aston Martin Haynes manual was a AQA GCSE subject now?

actually, Swedes, must people on this thread are looking a little beyond their own personal circumstances and choices (or lack of them) and at the bigger picture, i.e. the best thing for all children, not just our own.
I am not saying I can't afford it. I am saying that it is iniquitous and damaging to society and to the education system to have this kind of segregation, and it limits improvements in the state school system.

god that sounded patronising
apols, will go and lighten up a bit....

harpsichord - Well, yes of course. Unfortunately, probably much like everyone else, I am not willing to use my children as educational Guinea pigs. My duty is to them first and others after that - does that make me some sort of weirdo?

in a way i feel relieved that i can't afford private education and have no choice but to send my son to the local school. luckily he's bright and doesn't need extra coaching that a private school would give him.

hell, maybe he'll even go to university. he'll have more of a chance getting in, coming from a sink comp.

Actually harpsi, I think what limits the improvements in the state system is more about LEAs and public sector mentality-and I say that as a PS worker.

I have been teaching for over 10years and I still cannot understand the need for LEAs. They're just full (IME) of narrow minded people who lack innovation,will not accept change and willnot bloody pick up the phone if it's 4.31!!!!

As Hula said earlier, let schools make their own staffing and budget decisions and let them run themselves based upon their knowledge of the kids they care for.

well, swedes, not everyone feels that way.
using the state system is not equivalent to using your children as "guinea pigs" and that is just hyperbole tbh.
you are not saving your children from terrible hideous fate - it is good enough for 93% of the population, so it can't be that terrible - it just needs improving!
of course you want to do the best for your children, that is natural and very understandable
but it is really a bit off to accuse anyone who wants to see changes in the system of just "having a chip on their shoulder" because they can't access the advantages you have given to your children.

I think we should have academic selection and a wide range of vocational training. I hate the idea of the lottery system. And I agree that 'choice' is a confidence trick.

Not a wierdo no - normal. But just as you aren't a wierdo, neither is Alan Bennett for thinking otherwise.

Cushioncover, you could well be right about LEAs, judging from mine (which leaves 50-60 children in my area without a secondary school place every year - if they can't even effing count what on earth is going on?).

My LEA has been blocking ds's very successful, oversubscribed primary from expanding for four years now. Idiots.

Swedes, can't help grinning at you talking about guinea pigs - where we live you really wouldn't be running any risks using the state sector, would you? Be honest!

you may well be right about the LEAs - I will soon find out as I start a PGCE in September
oh go on Edam, tell us where you live
is it Tunbridge Wells?
Harrogate???
Cheltenham?????

"I am sure some/many of them do, but if they are not present, they can't be involved and (realistically) don't have the same emotional investment. they don't have an insight in the same way as if their children were in the system. and they can't have any influence as "consumers" to improve things very locally."

That argument sounds seductive but is essentially not valid, or not valid for the overwhelming majority of private school parents.

The fact is that if my DC's school were to be abolished, I wouldn't be prettying up to go to governors' meetings and getting involved in the school to improve it. I haven't the time, and frankly, I haven't the patience, and even if I had ample quantities of both, who's to say I've got a valuable contribution to make?

If you really want education to be fair, you have to abolish public schools, faith schools and home ed. Then you have to have the lottery like they do in Brighton to bus children around the city to eliminate the affluent postcode effect. I'd vote for it and pay extra taxes for it but it ain't ever going to happen.

LOL at Alan Bennett manning the barricades.

well to be clear again
I don't see the end game being a "fair" system only the removal of gross unfairness and elitism.
and QC maybe you wouldn't get involved, but lots of parents do
I don't really understand why ex-private school parents wouldn't get involved as a class of parents?