Alan Bennett: Ban Public Schools

[DaDaDa]

Have we done this one yet?

In an ideal world, I agree with him.

lights blue touch paper, retires to safe distance with nice cup of tea and digestive biscuit

Oh and Harpsi, while we're on the subject of you only wanting to abolish the things you feel are unfair, what is your stance on faith schools? Aren't they unfair?

Surely no child should receive a better education by virtue of being a catholic. Or jewish. Or CofE I suppose. Surely but surely they should be abolished?

If, as the news today suggests, re schools are going to start using a lottery system rather than catchents for their schools, then bussing in is going to be even more common.

I think Harpsi already said no to faith and explained that its not the 'unfair' that riles, its the lack of meritocracy.

wow thats quite a list of 'extras' - bleedin Hell.

But there is no meritocracy in being Catholic either?

The country is largely run by children from private schools because the schools are so much better. Go to MPs, take the leading 100 lawyers, board directors even Bishops and you'll see how good these schools are. The answer is not to abolisyh them but help those parents who are not in the 6% who can afford fees to take from the private system that which is good and seek to improve the state system.

To say everyone lives on hamburgers and will not live very long so let's force everyone to eat hamburgers is a really silly argument and of course anyone this thread who thinks private schools should be abolished must be socialist, surely?

Of course we'd hire tutors to educate at home coupled with may be a week a month in Ireland or france or whatever or we'd live partly abroad if that were the only way to secure a decent education. if you have money you have all those choices. We're only talking about 6% (who then make up 50% of those who get into Oxbridge because the schools are so good and state schools are so poor in comparison).

We don't say you're born very pretty so lets scar your face so you are at the same level as most others. It's a silly argument. So why abolish private schools because they are so successful and Alan Bennett's grammar school didn't teach him confidence? Why not just teach state school children how to speak properly, how to mix with all kinds of people, manners and how to be confident? Surely that's the answer not to dumb us all down into some kind of Stalag comp....

the bussing issue seems to go against what the government are saying about how we must all allow children more freedom etc.

guess there's one rule for us...

Thats why faith schls aren't fair either.

blimey Quattro if there is one subject I feel most strongly about it is faith schools.
religious discrimination is abhorrent.
see 1247130943 threads, passim

'seek to improve the state system'.

How exactly do we do that when pple are openly admitting on this thread that despite having good local state schls, they would move or pay to get to a better one for extras?

And add to that the unwillingness to pay any extra tax, and the (serious??) suggestion that those who go private should be tax exempt cos they've paid once already?

How then are you going to improve the state system given this kind of mindset?

Feck me, yes I'm a socialist. I'm not a commi tho. Commnunism doesn't work. Neither does elitism.

I've worked at the Commons. I know how Old Schl it is. It stinks tbh - no wonder nothing changes.

Niceglasses, this is something I'd like to address in this argument.
I pay for school to get those things. I don't pay to be elitist. I don't pay to avoid my kids mixing with particular children. Although the racial mix at school is far greater than that in my catchment primary.

I just don't see how abolishing such schools would ever allow state schools to offer such a rich and varied experience.

Because, perhaps, the resources directed at the private would go to the state. I think we've been through this.......yes, it may not happen, though I think it would to some extent.

I'm sure youre' not elitist, I know you want the best for you kids.You'd be weird if you didn't.

I just think we have to look at the wider picture.

If I'm honest, yes I find private schls go against what I think is right for society as a whole. But I also have equal problems with this moving/renting to get the best state. What do you think is going to happen to the schl you reject?

"The country is largely run by children from private schools because the schools are so much better"
Xenia, you really are very naive for a very smart woman.
that really is not the reason why.
and anyway many of the most senior people in the government are grammar school types.

'The country is largely run by children from private schools because the schools are so much better.'

maybe that's why the country is in the sorry state that is it now xenia.

buy your son a chance at prime minister, send him to harrow only £26,000 per year

BTW, I'm a socialist too. DH even more of a lefty than me. I don't see choosing private education as going against those principles because those principles (in my mind) are that everyone should have access to a very good education. Not that there should be no opportunity for others to pay for a 'top-up' of their excellent core education.

Hope that makes sense!

what anice man Alan Bennett is

cushioncover, your intentions are -no doubt -honourable. but they aren't really relevant.
what you intend is not the point.
it is the consequences of your decisions that impact on the rest of society, imo. the effect on the state schools is not dependent on your intentions.
of course I am a socialist so I believe in collective responsibility

hated history boys film, that was filmed at watford grammar, currently building another music facility.

But who would pay for those resourses? Who would pay for the land, for the swimming, for the workshops etc. At the moment I pay for that. If we're all in the state system, whopays for that level of facilities?

But eveyone doesn't have access to good education, thats the point. There is no choice.........only choice for the those who can afford it. Choice is a myth, its bollox, peddled by the very pple Xenia thinks are the crown jewels of the private schl system.

And I'm not talking piano lessons or french class on Tuesday night, before anyone starts.

cushion, the facilities are not really the issues.
if people want to pay for tennis lessons, french tuition, whatever, that is up to them.
I am not suggesting it is affordable to provide all children with the kind of education you have bought.
all I am suggesting is a more even distribution of resources among the 93%, rather than concentration among the already privileged 6%

I agree with Comrade niceglasses

my son's school does have alot of the same facilities as yours cushion but that's maybe because it's a specialist 'arts' college , which is fine by me as we're more of a creative family than an academic.

we just don't have a pool or of course the small class sizes.

Well, since many of the 'good' private schools are targeting themselves to be income blind by 2010 or so, then if you are bright enough then income doesn;t matter.

At my DCs independent school, roughly one third of the children are on bursaries or scholarships of one sort or another and I suspect that that will become more prevalent in the future.

If private schools are income blind then that does not make them elitist from a financial perspective. On that basis the question is really about whether we want more clever children taught separately from less clever ones, which brings us back to the grammar school debate.

I wouldn't opt for it myself, but for the cost of roughly two private school places at full cost, one could employ a full time teacher. I suspect that many would go down that route!

are they scrapping the charitable status? They really should you know

There is choice to do well at state school, get good A levels, pick work which will pay you enough to afford fees surely. I think Gordon Brown went to a state school unlike Blair and Cameron.

We live in a world with huge differences between people. Some are ugly. Some fat. Some very thick. Some so dreadful in personality no one will work with or consort with them. It's very very unfair. But you don't get rid of the unfairness by chopping out the good so everyone ends up mediocre surely?