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After the last goodbye.

495 replies

BongoJim · 06/08/2022 21:04

I know the last thread was removed because there was too much speculation and I get that. I believe a lot of people shared a lot of personal stories and experiences which were important and gave powerful insights. Would we be able to continue the debate without the speculation (start your own topic for that) and instead just continue to debate where cases like this need to change going forward, how court processes can change as a result of such difficult cases and what lessons can be taken from this awful case without it being a thread about a thread? It would be a shame to lose being able to discuss every other aspect of an important debate just because one aspect of it is problematic for MN. Is it even possible to continue debating the wider implications thrown up by a case like this? If it's not then my all means MN please delete. 🥺

OP posts:
BoreOfWhabylon · 10/08/2022 20:12

The Wikipedia page also opens up all sorts of rabbit holes
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryonics
Including this one
ill teen won historic ruling to preserve body www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38012267

BreadInCaptivity · 10/08/2022 20:19

The biggest logic fail for me is who wants to be re-animated in the far future (assuming it's even possible)?

Your loved ones will be dead - good luck re-connecting with your great, great, great, great grandchildren....(and do they have to refund their inheritance?).

You've no say in how you are re-animated...life as robocop - no thanks. Or just as a talking head? Fabulous.

The idea the future with be wonderful and exciting....actually no, it's likely to be scary as hell to you. Imagine the trauma of plucking a person from the 16th century to today?

Everything would be utterly alien and I mean that literally because it wouldn't be far off landing on another planet (albeit humanoid).

Quia · 12/08/2022 09:33

Interesting article on CLC here - www.opendemocracy.net/en/archie-battersbee-christian-legal-centre-preying-whitewash/

Puzzledandpissedoff · 12/08/2022 10:23

Interesting link, Quia, and there's another one here - though I don't know how reputable the site is - which deals more widely with some of CLC's personnel: nearlylegal.co.uk/2018/04/on-the-naughty-step-the-questionable-ethics-of-the-christian-legal-centre/

I found it interesting that some who've managed these "actions" aren't qualified lawyers at all, and call me unreasonable, but if I was looking for representation in something like this, I'd want someone who was

Quia · 12/08/2022 11:34

The Nearly Legal site is very reputable and well-respected.

The comments below the article are interesting, too.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 12/08/2022 12:20

Ah, thanks for the clarification, Quia; I know some of these sites can be less so and didn't want to assume a reputation that wasn't there

I didn't read the comments section so am off to that now ...

LouisRenault · 12/08/2022 12:53

The biggest logic fail for me is who wants to be re-animated in the far future (assuming it's even possible)?

Your loved ones will be dead - good luck re-connecting with your great, great, great, great grandchildren

There was a Star Trek: Next Gen episode which addressed this.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 12/08/2022 13:22

Alcor claim to address it too, Louis - apparently the family can have a memory box-type thing stored, so that whatever your loved one may become (?) can look at it in future and make some sort of sense of their lives

So that's okay then ... Hmm

LetsGoFlyAKiteee · 13/08/2022 08:01

Intresting that the a article that talks about the coronors conclusion has been posted by mum on the group. The comments from others are also interesting which are going against the whole NHS tried to kill him.

Makes sad reading.

itsgettingweird · 13/08/2022 08:13

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11106115/Archie-Battersbee-died-brain-injury-following-strangulation-coroner-says.html

Sorry it's DM but this I felt was a very good and balanced article and mentions religious groups getting involved making situations often more challenging.

Cuck00soup · 13/08/2022 09:01

A pity that they are persisting with the online challenge narrative, even if it’s prefaced with “his Mum believes”.

But then it’s in the DM’s interest to throw shade at social media channels.

Quia · 13/08/2022 09:13

Full inquest in February which will presumably explore further.

itsgettingweird · 13/08/2022 09:16

Yes I noticed the date for inquest. I think the family will struggle to cope with that timescale - although I accept that's usual.

Agree about the online challenge and we'll have to see what inquest says about that.

HappyHamsters · 13/08/2022 09:54

Cuck00soup · 13/08/2022 09:01

A pity that they are persisting with the online challenge narrative, even if it’s prefaced with “his Mum believes”.

But then it’s in the DM’s interest to throw shade at social media channels.

Youre right, its also mentions that the challenge users film themselves. Maybe thats easier for family to believe and accept. It sounds like many specialists and hospitals were involved in his care.

MrsLargeEmbodied · 13/08/2022 10:07

whether it was an online challenge, or done simply to get high or to end life - it had devastating repercussions.
she has invited AA to the funeral service
feel sad for her reaching out still

HappyHamsters · 13/08/2022 10:13

MrsLargeEmbodied · 13/08/2022 10:07

whether it was an online challenge, or done simply to get high or to end life - it had devastating repercussions.
she has invited AA to the funeral service
feel sad for her reaching out still

Yes, really tragic and no one will ever really know what happened will they, the Inquest doesnt apportion blame or find anyone guilty.

itsgettingweird · 13/08/2022 10:17

MrsLargeEmbodied · 13/08/2022 10:07

whether it was an online challenge, or done simply to get high or to end life - it had devastating repercussions.
she has invited AA to the funeral service
feel sad for her reaching out still

I do feel incredibly sad for her.

She's faced every parents worst nightmare in the most awful of circumstances.

At some point this will hit her hard. She won't have the army or CLC or the media.

And the media will report the inquest factually - as they must. And it won't tell the narrative she's tried to get out there

Quia · 13/08/2022 12:42

HappyHamsters · 13/08/2022 10:13

Yes, really tragic and no one will ever really know what happened will they, the Inquest doesnt apportion blame or find anyone guilty.

Show quote history

I assume the inquest will try to establish whether an online challenge was responsible or whether something else led to this. It will presumably look at the timeline and how long it was before he was found.

itsgettingweird · 13/08/2022 13:11

I do think so.

The reports say it's to establish various facts including how they died. I assume (although I'm not 100% sure) this would include how and why he had a ligature around his neck.

How else would you have the conclusion we often near "death by misadventure" I'm assuming where they can't be certain it was intentional to cause death but the actions of their person who died could, would and did cause death?

HappyHamsters · 13/08/2022 17:09

I dont know, maybe they look through his phone, social media posts and accounts and see what has been read, users are meant to be over 13 in the UK for tiktok so I wonder if it is proven that it was a challenge then criminal charges can be bought, I think tiktok are being sued for challenge deaths in other countries. How they prove it I dont know but the cause of his sad death does seem clear, which may be hard to accept if you want to blame the doctors instead.

LetsGoFlyAKiteee · 14/08/2022 13:27

Be intresting to see what her proposed Archie’s Army's law is meant to consist of seeing as in this situation there was nothing more that could've been done.

itsgettingweird · 14/08/2022 20:22

She's said it's for parents to have more (or all) say over the medical care of their children.

Personally I can't see it getting through at any level.

We can't start the slippery slope of parents being sole decision makers as that starts putting ability to safeguard children over anything at risk.

Quia · 14/08/2022 20:33

That would obviously condemn some children to die when their parents refuse treatment that they need. It would also mean that neglectful and abusive parents who don't take their child for treatment for fear of being found out would in effect be told to crack right on with neglecting and abusing to their heart's content.

fiftiesmum · 14/08/2022 21:23

Does anyone remember the Dennis potter play - cold Lazarus about cryogenics

Puzzledandpissedoff · 14/08/2022 21:34

No one will ever really know what happened will they, the Inquest doesnt apportion blame or find anyone guilty

You're right about them, not apportioning blame/guilt, but they certainly aim to ascertain facts, and I'd be very surprised if how Archie came to be brain dead wasn't gone into

This may or may not suit his mum's narrative, but that can't be helped; coroners aren't interested in silly accusations, but in the truth