Why are teen birth rates lower in the US than in the UK?

[Hulababy]

Article here

The birth rate among US teens aged 10-14 has fallen to the lowest level since 1946, government figures show.

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Given that the number of under-18s who became pregnant in England and Wales rose from 40,966 in 2001 to 41,868 in 2002, what can the UK learn from the US?

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Most young people having sex

1. Greenland
2. England
3. Ukraine
4. Wales
5. Scotland Rankings based on WHO survey of 162,000 15-year-olds from 35 countries in Europe and North America

Any thoughts?

What I can't understand with the recent case is that mother and the girl don't seem to be in the slightest bit worried that it is against the law for her to be having sex. She can't legally give her concent to sex, therefore it is rape.

I realise that these things do happen, but where is the mothers shame that her daughter has been daft enough to get pregnant twice, that she has nothing else to do with her life?

Last reports in the paper were something to do with the boy responsible could be taken to court for underage sex - no idea if that will happen, or who is taking him to court if at all. Only caught headlines whilst in shop.

the lad was released

the girl and mum were on R&J (dont usually watch it ) but they both looked reallyu upset and shellshocked by it. Still, lord knows why the mother never gave her proper contraception advice. news was lads mum was really proud she was going to be a nan at 30

not passing judgement, just telling what i read/saw

Proud! Oh FFS!!!!!!

Is it any wonder that her boy was too stupid/lazy/couldn't be arsed to wear a condom, given the level of stupidity that she seems to be showing.

fio - they must have started to realise the enormotity of it now then. As when on the TV news the mum did seem very matter of fact, and certainly not disapointed or upset. I missed the girl being interviewed.

HMB I completely agree with you. I don't remember getting any sex education at school it all came from my mum who told me in no uncertain terms 'if you get pregnant don't come back to me you can just p*ss off, dont expect any warm welcome or support from this house' - it worked for me, I didn't dare have sex for fear of getting pregnant until I had the finances and man to support myself.

apparently the only time he has wore a condom, was on his head to make his mates laugh

shouldn't be admitting to reading News of the World this Sunday

but it carried an interview with the lad and his mum, who both claimed to be horrified with the PG. lots of comments by lad on the lines of - i don't want to spend money on a baby, I want to spend it on trainers, CDs etc, she told me she was on the Pill, she used me for a baby etc etc.

The school I went to didn't allow any contraception to be taught. We had at least one pregnancy per year from Y8 onwards. On egirl had a baby in Y11 having had 3 abortions.

I think that young people need advice on contraceptives but they also need someone like cusrty to go into school and tell it like it is.

the trouble is that tese kids don't think that it will ever happen to them because , well they know best, don't they?

Yes I was interested in sex at 15, but I knew that if I ended up pregnant my choices would be limited and my mother would make my life hell. All the contraception I needed.

There comes a point when you say, just don't do it, or if you do don't get pregnant, BECAUSE I SAY SO, THAT' WHY! Becaus in the end we are the adults.

i sometimes think i am the only one who thinks this, but am glad to see someone else use the shame word.
their is no longer any shame attached to having sex. yes, sex is natural, and we should not feel shame about oour bodies natural functions blah blah blah. but honestly, having four kids with four differnt fathers isnt something to be proud of.
in this country, religion never figures in anything unless it is negatively. yet, for most of the world, it is very good at keeping teen pregnancies down. yes, i know there are negative things as well, but there are good points about religions as well.

when i had to teach sex ed to year 7, i felt very awkward. all i wanted to say to them was, look dont do it until you are much older, at least 17 or 18. and dont believe what you see on the big screen because it isnt real. instead i had to tell them it is natural and they should not be ashamed or embarassed about it. and they will do it and this is how babies are mad,e and all about vd.s it just seemed to be encourageing them.
oh, and we rolled condoms onto test tubes. it was a usual sort of thing to do.....

Today's news regarding teen pregnancies in the UK.

"The government's programme to cut the rate of teenage pregnancy has faltered, according to official figures yesterday showing an increase in conceptions in England among girls under 18.

The number of 16-year-olds becoming pregnant increased from 12,259 in 2001 to 12,672 in 2002. The number of 17-year-olds conceiving went up from 18,795 to 19,283 over the same period.

Although pregnancies among the under-16s fell slightly to 7,395 - the lowest level for 11 years - the overall result was disappointing for family planning organisations trying to bring British rates down to the European average.

Ministers set a goal to halve the pregnancy rate among 15-17-year-olds between 1998 and 2010.

Policies to improve teenagers' sex education and access to sexual health advice services appeared to be working as the conception rate tumbled from nearly 46.7 per 1,000 girls in 1998 to 42.5 per 1,000 in 2001.

But the provisional figures for 2002, published by the Office for National Statistics yesterday, showed the rate crept up in 2002 to 42.6. Just over half the pregnant teenagers gave birth, but most of those under-16 had abortions.

The Department for Education and Skills said the figures did not invalidate its programme, costing pounds 138m over the six years to 2004-05.

"We have a 10-year strategy . . . and we know it takes time to make the attitudinal and behavioural changes required," a spokeswoman said.

"This plateauing of under 18 conception rates reveals the need to redouble our efforts in the areas that record persistently high teenage pregnancy rates."

The department would de velop a "hotspot strategy", concentrating its efforts on London boroughs and other areas with exceptionally high teenage pregnancy rates. The rate in Lambeth is 100.4 per 1,000 girls under 18, Southwark 86.0 and Nottingham 78.6.

Half the nation's pregnant teenagers live in 20% of local authority wards and these would be targeted by school nurses, teachers and other professionals, the DfES said.

Jan Barlow, chief executive of the sexual health advice organisation Brook, said: "Although today's figures show hardly any change in the teenage pregnancy rate between 2001 and 2002, we should welcome the fact that there was a slight decrease in the rates for under-16s, and that the overall trend in recent years is downwards."

Family Planning Association chief executive Anne Weyman welcomed the news that the under-16s pregnancy rate was at its lowest since 1993.

YWCA chief executive Gill Tishler said: "There were nearly twice as many teenage mums 30 years ago than there are today."

The ONS figures also showed growing numbers of women conceiving in their 30s and 40s and fewer in their 20s. The chances of a woman over 40 conceiving increased by 50% between 1990 and 2002."

I am desperate to get involved in this discussion and have been reading it with my 15 year old daughter. She has read the Bliss article to me and it makes it quite clear that Melissa Panarello hated herself as a result of her experiences and wanted "other girls to be warned off meaningless, loveles sex". The magazine article is much more balances than the online fragment. The book One Hundred Strokes of the Brush Before Bedtime has been mentioned elsewhere on MN, I think.

Custardo, good post. Will come back to this later when I have more time.

not usre who made the point but i agree that religion is a huge factor, its often hollands low teen sex numbers and pregnancy which are bandid around, this country however liberal its views on sex are is also very religious.

Also girls in Holland tend to have higher expectations of their future life than kids in 'bad' estates.

I'm probably being very simplistic, but when I was a teenager, it went something like this. This is how you make a baby. If you don't want to get pregnant, use contraception, ie the pill or a condom. If you do get pregnant, you can either have an abortion or you can have the baby. My mum would then take it further by explaining that my life as I knew it would be over, and that she would not give up her life/career etc under any circumstance to look after my baby - that would be down to me. I know that there is more to it than that, but more info does not equal lower pregnancy rates - it's more about raising girls expectations, and making pregnancy and babies a whole lot less appealing for some, both financially and as a lifestyle choice.

After much thought and discussion my dd (15) and I still utterly agree with custardo on reasons for high teenage pregnancy rates
poor parenting
lack of education
lack of information
lack of hope for the future.
Dd disagrees with the comments here about teen magazines and suggests that the constant reiteration of phrases like ?slow down? and ?sex is illegal if you are under 16? and ?never be pressured? & the ?sexy and sussed? message in Bliss all go towards educating young women that they can say no, that learning to love ones body & oneself (huge issues in this culture & particularly at this age) and the article specifically about the technicalities just give teens the info they need to make informed decisions. It is, she suggests, frankly more helpful that sex ed where teachers are feeling ?very awkward? & very obviously don? t believe teenagers should be doing it full stop.
As someone else said teenagers have raging hormones and imo to expect them to suddenly deal with sex being legal on their sixteenth birthday is ridiculous. They need to understand the possible consequences of their actions whether they are using contraception or not. In the problem page of Bliss in answer to one question the reply goes along the lines of ?if you can?t talk about sex to x you shouldn?t be having sex with x?. This is something I?ve always said to my daughter adding that if you cannot take responsibility for the consequences of your actions you should not be having sex. Dd has no interest in babies, she has a four year old brother and knows exactly the realities of having a baby, she is much more interested in going to college, forging a career and travelling. However, a couple of her friends seem quite immature about the prospect of going out into the big wide world and from the things dd has told me I would not be surprised if at least one of them actively gets pregnant in the next couple of years. Imo & from my experience I can say that this girl lacks three of custys reasons for high teenage pregnancy: poor parenting; lack of education (this young woman is encouraged by her parents to have days off school to go clothes shopping on a regular basis & education is far from a priority); and thirdly she has no hope for the future? she does have lots of information largely from her peer group, her experience and teen mags and it is here, in these circumstances that teen mags can be a good or bad thing. Teen mags alone largely cannot make up for an absence of parenting, education and expectations/hope but perhaps on occasions they do help a lone individual stand back and think I don?t have to do this? or if I do, I have to be safe.
Dd says that the girls who have ?a reputation? in her year (year 10) very few people male or female respect them. And for every one with a reputation there is a teenager having sex and being responsible. And for every teenager having sex and being responsible there are several as yet, not having sex (some will admit it, most say nothing, and a few lie and say they are).
But back to the subject of pregnancy rate is US v pregnancy rates in UK. Reading dd?s copy of Sugar Rush by Julie Burchill I was amused when one character says ?it?s weird that American kids don?t have sex unil they?re, like, grown ups. I don?t think we have rites of passage over here anymore; kids are born knowing everything, I think. I don?t know if that?s good or bad.? I think it is an interesting point.

told my dh about the going into schools idea and he said that if i ws to be taken seriously by health care and teaching professionals i would have to have some sort of child development degree - at least and some other qualifications that he probably diesnt know about. we are both community workers you see and do a lot of interagency work and youth diversionary activities. i suggested that the healthcare professionals can do the teaching bit - its was life experience and expectations talk i was thinking about he still not sure and neither am i - what do teachers think about this kind of thing going on in school and what do parents think about someone coming in giving a lecture to their kids about why not to have babies?

and what qualifications would youe expect this person to have

i have often said to my dh that he should let me at some of the teenage kids he is in contact with who talk endearingly about having a baby!

i was a teenage mum. I'm 31 now. i didnt plan to have a baby at 16. i was just naive that it wouldnt happen to me. My bf at the time (now my husband) stood by me. he was 15 when ds arrived. we now have a love 2.5 yr ds and a 5 mth old ds too.

Nothing anyone could have told me would have changed what i did.

what i think is more important is that teen parents are supported, and encouraged not to have any in first place, but more importantly not to keep having them year after year.

I'm an accountant now, we own our home home, the mortgage is our only debt! not all teen parents are losers!

This thread is really interesting, have just skimmed it so apologies if I've missed anything, but i think what hasn't been mentioned yet is love.

Many teenage girls have babies becuase they want someone to love and be unconditionally loved by. They have babies because they know that that's what babies do - love you unconditionally, however fat, ugly, inadequate, thick, unlovely, etc. etc., you feel. I think we have to look at why so many young girls feel so desperate for love and so lacking in self-worth that they're convinced a baby is the only way of finding it.

And the girl who is now pregnant again, after having an abortion - well isn't that quite normal? She's gone through the grief of having lost a baby, and now wants another one to comfort her and take away that grief. If she were a woman in her twenties or thirties, who had been "persuaded" to undergo a termination, would we all find it so strange that she felt that primal need to be pregnant again? That doesn't strike me as stupid at all, just absolutely natural, animal instinct. That may be stupid in terms of the society we've created, but hormones haven't caught up with developed capitalism!

Unfortunately research has shown that the approach of young women coming in to schools and talking to kids / teens about how hard it is to be a teenage parent, doesnt work. It isnt effective, because, like when teachers and other 'adults' try to talk about sex to young people, the kids / teens cant relate to them, and thus dont believe what they are being told. For example, a 40 year old man talking to kids about sex ed? The teens think (according to research) what does he know about having sex? Whatever he is trying to tell us can't be true because he obviously has no idea, there's no way he's had sex recently! With the young parents talking to teens, the teens tend to think along the lines of, 'well, she got pregnant at 15 and she's had a hard time, but when I get pregnant at 15, I won't make the mistakes she made...'

I dont know the solution to this problem (does anyone??!) but i think the discussions going along the lines of self esteem, lack of life prospects etc are right. How these problems are solved are part of a wider problem in society today. ALthough I can see why people feel horrified about teens being taught about oral sex etc, i think if they know about things like oral sex, then they may be less likely to do things like full sex etc. Thats the general idea anyway.

i agree navy nic - i was preggers at 16 married at 17 and 15 years later we are still together. i am suggesting that that is not the ideal or or you think we should promote young pregnancies?

But it might address the worrying increase in young girls who WANT babies HelloMama?

Far too many kids who think it'd be fun/grown up/someone to love them. Tbh that's the trend that worries me.

As far as unplanned teenage pregnancies go, I don't think it's changed much since I was 16 & scared silly by a false alarm! I was a bright, ambitious girl, at grammar school, en route to University, fully aware of contraception & with parents who would've been utterly horrified if I'd got pregnant - & still I was careless enough to give myself a real fright. It happens because teenagers ARE stupid & arrogant on occasion, & don't quite get that consequences apply to them.

You're always going to get the occasional teenager who accidentally gets pregnant/gets their gf pregnant & bitterly regrets their carelessness.

It scares me far more that there are 14 year olds who think that having a baby is their logical next step in life.

I really think we need to return to some of our old fashioned values. We need to teach children about life in school. We need to change the benefits/housing system so having a baby isn't a way of getting a new home and benefits galore.

They needed to be educated that this isn't the next step after childhood, that there is a whole world out there waiting for them.

The programme on TV recently where the two teenage sisters age 15 and 16 had babies just about summed it all up. In a year or so both girls will be re-housed and as long as they have growing families will be re-housed again to accommodate them. They will have their benefits and their homes paid for and probably never work.

This also means that the home the mother and step father lived in will be less overcrowded so everyone wins all round except the tax payer.

second hand rose i refer you to my post of 22 nov which included:

if benefits are so lucrative then please inform me why i shouldnt pop out another set of twins and give up my boring, lifeless, bollox, bullying, shit bastard job. cos i would in a heartbeat give up my job if something better that paid the bills came up. and if claiming benefits is such a piece o' piss then tell me why more people dont do it - serious question - not rhetorical BTW.

There are a few places where I think we're going wrong in this country when it comes to sex education. Firstly, there is no blanket policy about what has to be taught when it comes to sex education. The curriculum states that the schools have to teach about reproduction and I think a small amount about contraception and STI's. If the schools choose to teach more, then thats up to them, but they dont have to and many won't. The problem here is that yes, you can teach 13-14 year olds about condoms and pills and infections, BUT when it actually comes to it, and they are actually considering having sex, they don't have the maturity to put the knowledge about condoms etc, into practice. They can't even tell their boyfriends/girlfriends what turns them on and the like, let alone 'can you wear a condom'? They arent having good, loving sex because they don't have the skills to talk about sex and its consequences in a grown-up manner.

So I think all sex ed should mainly forget about pills, condoms etc (they can be pointed in the direction of a clinic for that info) the lessons need to focus on how to talk about relationship issues, such as respect, boundaries, saying 'no' to sex and other pressures. Once we get that sorted, and they are happy in themselves and confident, then we can get across the message about safer sex. This is where i think we're going wrong.