Why are teen birth rates lower in the US than in the UK?

[Hulababy]

Article here

The birth rate among US teens aged 10-14 has fallen to the lowest level since 1946, government figures show.

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Given that the number of under-18s who became pregnant in England and Wales rose from 40,966 in 2001 to 41,868 in 2002, what can the UK learn from the US?

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Most young people having sex

1. Greenland
2. England
3. Ukraine
4. Wales
5. Scotland Rankings based on WHO survey of 162,000 15-year-olds from 35 countries in Europe and North America

Any thoughts?

MummyToSteven is right: These statistics might just mean that US teens have more terminiations.

I know the magazine "more" aimed at v early teens has a "position of the week" page.
One of the differences in the states is the culture of sports and extra curricular activity - here it would be seen to be uncool to be involved in such things and like the song says, they "drink and fight and screw, because there's nothing else to do".

Also - do we ever look at the US in terms of state by state, and their own particular brand of "prevention". I always think it is wrong to compare our litte country to one three to four times the size - with such vast differences along the scale of social and cultural groups. How can we simply compare statistics?

I think alcohol and our social culture has a lot to do with it.

I think people are ignorant of the realities of sex (esp. girls) and the consequences.

I think v. young girls often DO suddenly wake up one day and realise the potential of their bodies, and that they are capable of making a baby, and it all seems such an easy choice to make, with a lot of people seemingly breaking out of the family life for independence at that crucial age when you are desperate to be independent.

Sometimes this becomes a vicious cycle. Friend's half sister deliberately got pregnant at 16 to piss off her father. She got a place of her own. Barely survived, but is now married and has other child/ren. However, her daughter has just had a baby also at 16. "If mum did it - why can't I?" syndrome.

So very sad. Children with children.

custardo, i wish the girls that i knew would listen to you. they never listened to me their teacher, but then i didnt have first hand experience of being a sixteen year old mom.

their moms were happy they were pregnant! that i could not understand. yes it is bloody hard work getting thru the poverty trap, so why did they encourage it in their kids? i could not understand it then, definitly dont now. just felt like i was on a different planet culture wise.

the way i see it, the only thing that will prevent teen pregnancy, is a cultural change, and that is not likely to happen here.

Could it be because of the rise of the neo-conservatives and their "family values" in the us? They certainly are in favour of no sex before marriage and are very religious.

Custy, that was one of the best posts I have ever read on Mumsnet.

I want to copy it and nail it to the heads of some of my y11 form who strut around as if they are some superiour form of life and audults are some form of sub species of shit who know nothing about the reality of life. These daft little girls will have such a fucking wake up call when they get a dose of reality, and then they will have screwed up their life for the next decade or so.

But hey, what do I know about it.

People have always had kids young. Even in my grans day. People are just more open about it now. It is nature to want sex. I was desperate for sex as a teen, hormones raging etc..

Haven't had time to read all the posts so mayh be repeating - India Knight's column in the Sunday Times this week was on this subject. She reckoned we give kids too much info in the UK - i.e. sex education from a young age, how to put condoms on etc and also magazines aimed at 12yr olds discussing sex (including oral ffs!!! - I was shocked to discover this). The US supposedly in more "moral" about such issues and young children are not given so many facts. Her conclusion was that rather than making children more responsible about sex, all this info is just making them curious and keen to experiment. I think she has a point - we didn't have sex education until 15 (I think?) when I was in school, and then it was very factual - certainly no putting condoms on banana (!) and I didn't even know about oral sex until probably 17 or 18.

Fio, I agree that it's natural to want to have sex. That's another reason I don't like the abstinence approach. I am really shocked to hear that some 16 year old girls actually want to get pregnant. That really does show a need for educating about the consequences.

From what I've read on this thread it sounds like you're talking about kids on council estates if they 'get housing' after having a baby. Anyone know the stats for middle class kids? Are they comparable? Just wondering if this is a problem specific to a certain group or if it's widespread.

My experience in the States, and again I can only speak for Texas, is that it is not easy to have an abortion. They make it difficult with lots of red tape and pre-counselling. I'm all for counselling before such a serious decision but, from what I've heard, they basically try to talk you out of it. For a young girl it would be very difficult to persevere and go on with the abortion.

Catbert, yes you're right that it's not really a fair comparison with the US. I worked out that England can fit into Texas over five times! And that's just one state. It's a huge place and varies wildly from area to area.

I was very scared of getting pregnant btw, must add that. i was always told that I MUST use condoms by my parents and tbh it wasnt just the getting pregnant, it was catching STD's and HIV that scared me. At our school (working class area) they showed us a video in personal development lessons on STDS what they looked like, what HIV and AIDS does to oyu. not nice viewing at 14, i can tell you. One lad fainted! Worked for me though

Bonym, I agree that sex education should be factual. I do think the condom on a banana is a good idea though. Putting on a condom incorrectly and at the wrong time (ie, just before ejaculation rather than before any penetration) causes accidents.

How does sex education work in the UK? When I was growing up we saw a video at about age 10. Boys went in one room and girls in another and we saw gender specific videos. The girl's was all about periods and touched on how babies are made but it was very vague. Still have no idea what the boys watched! Then at 13 we had more details and watched the Nova video about babies and birth (but they wouldn't let us watch the birth scene at the end). Then at 16 we had Health class which covered venereal disease, contraception (the condom and banana again!) and the morality of sex (as in, don't do it until you're married). Looking back, I guess it was pretty balanced. How does it differ in the UK?

I should add that the emphasis was always on taking responsibilty for yourself. Either taking care of yourself when you have a period, protecting yourself from STDs, protecting your reputation, etc.

I'm a magazine journalist and I am HORRIFIED by the content of many magazines aimed at teenagers and even pre-teens. I find them repulsive. And I tend to agree with India Knight that they just increase the pressure on kids to have sex early and feel like a freak if they don't. There are no magazines like this in the US and I think that's a good thing. I'm certainly not saying that the magazines are the cause of teen pregnancy - but I do think they are part of a culture which encourages it. And yes, I am sure class is a huge part of the problem of teen pregnancy - which is tied in with everything Custardo said about lack of education and perceived opportunities. Also it does seem to go down the generations - teen mothers are more likely to find their daughters become teen mothers. What you do about it? I really don't know.

i think i have just found a consultancy niche! dya think it could work? dya think i could get govt funding for putting teens off having babies? ithink i may ask around

you go hmb!!!!!! tell 'em girl! ( sorry ks too many exclaimation marks!)

Why not Custardo? Sounds like a brilliant idea.

Think Custardo should have a standing ovation for her post.
A good dose of reality is needed to balance out the media pics of glossy pop stars with cute babies in designer pushchairs.

I don't think anyone should be allowed to edit a young teen mag unless they have a daughter between eight and 15. Then see how keen they are on position of the week and oral sex tips!

aloha made me think of another factor too, i think parental expectation has some part to play. my mother who encouraged me and made me think i was the absolute best at everything ( she later said i was pretty average at most tings and expected i would become a swimming intructor!) but she made me feel so very able that when i did stupidly get pregnant i felt like i had let her down so much that i still went on to university - but it took me 3 times as long

my daughter doesnt want babies and i know thats my doing - and thats great - she will change her mind when she is older i am sure, however my expectation of her is to go to university.

i think this is where some parents fail, they expectt heir children will not have a better life than they do and therefore there are no standards to rise to as a child - does that make any sense at all its a bit mixed up

I know the teen mags are more explicit than many adults feel comfortable with BUT I did think the problem page answers in Hulababy's post were down to earth, non-judgmental & helpful - possibly a better source of info for curious teenagers than furtive & inaccurate playground gossip.

Of course, I know there's a school of thought that giving kids too much info only FUELS the furtive gossiping...I'm just not convinced, given the stuff that's on telly, in adults' 'lads' mags' (widely read by pre-teen boys) & so on, that you can avoid young kids being sexually aware just be banning Sugar/Bliss etc!

I think Custardo's got it spot on. I teach far too many silly little girls who think it'd be lovely to have their very own ickle baby...& far too many irresponsible lads. Someone who's 'lived it' going into schools & talking openly to kids about the realities of young parenthood might make them think twice.

I have no problem with the answers to the 'problems' I just think the 'questions' are overwhelmingly sexual, very explicit and I doubt very much they reflect the real issues that most 10 to 14 year olds are facing but are there for sensation's sake. There is also competition for the most explict copy, I suspect. There certainly was in the older market. The mag I worked on is one where you would expect the questions on the problem page to be about explicit sex but they almost never were, which is why I am so suspicious about these very graphic questions in mags aimed at younger readers.

I think that while most teenagers are very interested in sex and most want to 'dip a toe' (so to speak!) in the water, most don't want to go as far as they are being pressured to do by our society.

When you get kids (and they are kids) of 13 having sex it is time to shout stop. They are not mature enough to cope with any of the consequences, be that pregnancy, a dose of the clap, or the shock of being a sexual being.

We need to raise kids who are happy with themselves and are confident to have sex when they are ready, not so that they can be cool.

We need to raise kids who have better things on the horizon than coping with no cash and a baby. And I loved being a SAHM, but them I was old enough and had the cash to help me to cope.

And dare I say it we need to tell our kids in no incertain terms that if they end up a parent at 15 they are fucking idiots! If I had done that my mother would have killed me! The terror that she put into me kept me on the right side of verginity until I was old enough to cope with losing it in saftey and some style. Not some furtive ,five minute, fumble FFS!

Custado - I think the expectation thing you talk of is spot on in so many cases. In the school I teach at the pupils (and their parents) have very low expectations for themselves and their futures. They do not even see themselves going out of the village - going into the town centre is not a common daily occurence. Many come from families who are now on their 2nd and 3rd generations being unemployed. And many have the attitude that school is something they just have to do legally and as soon as they can leave they will do - girls to have a family, the boys to get a job or whatever.

Part of the school's main challenge is getting those kids to raise their expectations and ambitions - no mean feat! Especially when many of their parents do not support this way of thinking

Having a baby is just considered part of "what we do" when we leave school, in their eyes.

I find it so sad but do see that kind of expectation think each day I work.

I think the recent case of that young girl who had the abortion says a lot. Can't remember details but she was, and still is, underage. Got pg and had an abortion without parental permission. Mum was in papers over it. Well that girl is now pg again and mum did come across "well, told you so" and "it's what she wanted". This girl is UNDER 16 - she's still a child, not ready to be a mum surely.

I suspect that some of it may relate to the fact that 50% of the US pop. are regular church attenders, as opposed to less than 10% in the UK. It's a whole different lifestyle and set of choices.

In full agreement with you hmb.

My year 9 English class last year included a pregnant 14 year old & FAR too many of the other girls were plainly hugely impressed. I'd be willing to bet that very few of them actually bother to spend time with her now that she's stuck at home with a 4 month old, poor love - her & me both, but at least I've had nearly another 20 years 'life experience' first. Can't imagine how I'd've coped at that age - loving it now, but as you say, that's with the maturity & cash to manage.

Must admit to a certain foot in mouth moment tho' - tutor group disingenuously asked me if my baby was planned, to which I thoughtlessly replied 'good grief NO, what sort of idiot would I be to plan a baby for the start of the summer holidays?!' Cue highly embarrassing ticking-off from them for having obviously not been paying attention in the sex ed lessons I've been giving them for the last 4 years...!