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Bhutto's Assassination a Political and Cultural Honor Killing

42 replies

Monkeytrousers · 30/12/2007 13:24

"Bhutto's Assassination Is a Political and Cultural Honor Killing

In a sense, the assassination of Benazir Bhutto is a political and cultural version of an honor killing. Bhutto was the first woman Prime Minister of a Muslim nation and she symbolized an unacceptably Western form of female ambition and achievement. She had attended Harvard/Radcliffe and Oxford. She spoke English?perhaps more fluently than she spoke her native Sindi or Urdu. She once dressed as Western women do. Indeed, many Muslim women from wealthy families, including educators and feminists, have done so for a long time. They cannot do so now.

I am suggesting that, as a member of the Ummah (or larger Muslim collectivity), Islamist fanatics decided that Bhutto was unacceptably and publicly too-Western, and they sentenced her to death for this sin.

Pakistan is known for its many bloody honor murders and other atrocities.

In 1999, in Lahore, Pakistan, Samia Imran was shot dead in her feminist lawyer?s office by a man whom her parents had hired to kill her. Her crime? Daring to seek a divorce.

In 2001, in Gujar Khan, Pakistan, Zahida Perveen?s husband attacked her, gouged out both her eyes, her nose, and her ears. He wrongly suspected her of adultery. His male relatives honored him for doing so. (A team of American doctors subsequently fitted Zahida with glass eyes and prostheses for her ears and nose).

In 2002, a tribal council in the Punjab, in Pakistan, sentenced eighteen year-old Mukhtaran Bibi to be gang-raped as a punishment for something her twelve year-old brother had allegedly done: Walking with a girl from a higher-status tribe. (Actually, he had been sexually abused by Mastoi men who sought to cover up their crime in this way). Mukhtaran Bibi?s father was forced to witness her gang-rape, after which she was driven naked through the streets. Amazingly, the gang-rapists were eventually arrested and convicted. Mukhtaran Bibi was given round-the-clock government protection. The rapists have vowed to kill her anyway.

Did Benazir Bhutto think that her membership in a historic dynasty would protect her from the war against women that jihadists are currently waging? Did she think that the government could actually protect her from such woman-haters who would vote al-Qaeda into power if they had the chance? (The fact that she was a political threat both to Musharraf and to the Taliban and that she might have functioned as a bridge to America and potentially to Israel did not endear her to those who killed her. The fact that she had planned to recognize Israel and had already asked for Mossad protection, could indeed have been the final nail in her coffin. SEE HERE.)

Bhutto was one of the ?moderate? Muslims for whom the West yearns. Muslim fanatics murdered her in cold blood and they did so in an exquisitely planned and choreographed way. Their willingness to die in order to kill, terrorize, and impose their ideology upon others is precisely what keeps other ?moderate? Muslims silent.

How far are the representatives of freedom, modernity, and human rights willing to go to end such terrorism? If we are not ready to do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to free humanity from the plague of fundamentalist Islam, then we must be prepared to convert, veil, submit?or die."

Phillis Chesler

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AnneMayesR · 30/12/2007 13:31

and now these guys are going to have their hands on nukes if pakistan falls apart.

MerryPIFFLEmas · 30/12/2007 13:43

Actually thnk it has less to do with her being a woman, although she has been on the Al Q hitlist for decades. unacceptable not just as a woman, but as a pusher of democracy.
Sharif is also in the same boat, he just courts a little less publicly then BB did, for this exact reason.

But also look at the Ghandi dynasty in India, as well men and women targetted more at their political aspirations as to gender.
And now BB's son is on the line.

SueBaroo · 30/12/2007 14:39

I have online muslim contacts who are not 'moderates' and they held the view that she was a collaborator with the west, basically.

Monkeytrousers · 30/12/2007 14:59

Really SueBaroo? Have you seen my Hirsi Ali thread? Could you ask your contacts what they think of her?

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SueBaroo · 30/12/2007 15:12

Similar views when we've discussed it, along with Irshad Manji. Hirsi Ali is an 'apostate', fully rejecting Islam, so it's a little more clear-cut for them, but they consider her to be a pawn of western paymasters.

Which I find a bit laughable, actually, given that she really hasn't been given a very wide hearing in those in the West who I think find her rather problematic.

Monkeytrousers · 30/12/2007 15:26

Cheers.here's the thread.

But do they think Bhutto deserved to die then? And support the fatwa on Hirsi-Ali?

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SueBaroo · 30/12/2007 15:55

This a direct quote from one person -

So to do this, we see that bhutto, her beliefs, and her party had a big part in making the situation we see today, she followed many un-islamic ideals, and plans, whereas in islam we "hear and we obey" , muslims must be ruled by whatever Allah (swt) has revealed, their is no choice in that.
The only Deen acceptable to Allah (swt) is Islam

Me again It's more passive aggressive than just thinking she deserved to die. It's framed in 'Allah will judge her', but it's fairly clear that they don't wish good things on her in the afterlife. I've quoted some of the gentler words.

The standard line about Hirsi-Ali and exection for being an apostate is that apostates are only killed in countries with Islamic law, and it wouldn't be right for anyone to take it upon themselves to do it. but again, it's clear they would think she bought it on herself if anyone did choose to do it.

Monkeytrousers · 30/12/2007 16:28

Hmm, yes. And also if they actually believed in god, they wouldn't feel it was actually their responsibility to punish them in this life. There's a bit of a contradiction there.

What of Theo Van Gogh? Was he an apostate?

I have no problem thinking most Muslims believe in god, but most Islamists and Jihadist's I'm doubtful about.

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SueBaroo · 30/12/2007 16:58

Theo VG wasn't an apostate as far as I'm aware, he was never a Muslim, was he? The definition of apostate is one who believes and then rejects the belief.

You really don't think they believe in God? Why would you think that, out of interest?

Monkeytrousers · 30/12/2007 18:45

Islamists, political fundamenatlist islamists who are pushing the islamist agenda do so for power, not to spread the work of god, any god, or for any 'good'. Do you think Osama Bin Ladin believes in a god? I don't. They have to say they do, but how can they really?

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Monkeytrousers · 30/12/2007 18:46

have you chatted with anyone Muslim or Islamist (I think their is a distinction to be made) about the demographic issue in Europe?

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Blandmum · 30/12/2007 18:48

I thought that Ed Hussain was very interesting ontha issue. He was a radical islamist and many of his co-'believers' couldn't even pray as an observant Muslim. It was only when he left politicial islamism that he came 'back' to his religion.

Excellent book btw, very thoughtful

Monkeytrousers · 30/12/2007 18:50

Piffle, the Islamists agenda is to terrorise everyone into submission, Muslims and athiests alike.

It is worth saying that from the Islamist agenda, women are simply not allowed to do what she did and would have been on a hit list for much less, had she been a nobody.

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Monkeytrousers · 30/12/2007 18:51

What book was that MB?

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Blandmum · 30/12/2007 20:30

The Islamist by Ed Hussain

SueBaroo · 30/12/2007 21:16

Oh, definitely, I'm not denying there is a main motivation of power and politics involved for some.

But there is a worldview that is radically different to the western secular viewpoint. I talk to people who are 100% faithful Muslims, praying their Salat, fasting and so on, who think that the idea of a separation of church and state is abhorrent. They truly cannot understand how you can separate religion from the state.

In terms of the demographics, I recall speaking to one young Muslim lady who felt that Sharia should be implemented in the UK to reflect the growing Muslim population which she was utterly convinced was about 35%. It took a little while to convince her that it was nothing like that big.

I think secularists are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to dealing with Islamists, precisely because the Islamists do, in large proportion, believe in a God and an afterlife. That's why a suicide bomb is such a terrifying and powerful thing, even though it's often a symbol of powerlessness. It's all about what you are prepared to do.

Now sure, you could make a case for someone like Osama Bin Laden being very shaky on the whole belief thing. But there are undoubtedly many people who do believe and who follow certain teachings that would lead them to think it was OK to kill western people who would, in their eyes, be complicit in attacking the Ummah, and therefore not innocents.

I also know Muslims who are very lovely, rational, sensible beings, so I will be very clear that this is not about Islam per se.

fuzzywuzzy · 30/12/2007 21:24

I find this idea of implementing shariah in a non muslim country so bizarre. Anyone who understands islamic law (ie shariah). would understand that the muslim under shariah law is bound to adhere to the rule of law of the country in which they reside so eg in the UK, you can only marry one woman, because that is the law here.
Anyway, as you were, have nothing to contribute to the OP... except that I've not heard it called an honour killing, there are furious debates as to who dunnit tho Musharraf or the Taliban...... and my mother is dreadfully upset (anyone would think she knew her personally), not that it isnt tragic it is and sad and horrible, I'm still unable to get in touch with a few friends in pakistan and I'm terrified for them, the aftermath to the whole thing is atrocious.

SueBaroo · 30/12/2007 21:27

fuzzywuzzy, yes, I've had that conversation, too. We have friends in Pakistan, it's a frightening time.

Monkeytrousers · 02/01/2008 09:40

"In terms of the demographics, I recall speaking to one young Muslim lady who felt that Sharia should be implemented in the UK to reflect the growing Muslim population which she was utterly convinced was about 35%. It took a little while to convince her that it was nothing like that big."

It is at or near 50% in France though, and they are facing a constitutional crisis about it as Islamists are pushing for shariah due to the demographic explosion on the continent.

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Callisto · 02/01/2008 16:41

According to the CIA world factbook, www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/fr.html#People the Muslim population in France is between 5% and 10% with RC being by far the most popular religion at up to 88%? By contrast the Muslim population in the UK is about 2.7%.

I agree that BB was killed for being a woman btw.

Callisto · 02/01/2008 16:44

I also find it depressing that this (extremely important) subject has attracted so few comments while the latest Posh pics are avidly discussed. (Though I do realise that the question posed by Monkey trousers in the OP was very specific and so would attract less comment, but even so).

Monkeytrousers · 02/01/2008 18:03

Yes, re the overall populations - they are expected to equalize within a generation or so - but those are figues from a few books I've flicked through and haven';t read properly yet - but there seems to be mounting fear about it, it's central to the stuff Hirsi- Ali, Hitchings, Dawkins and Harris are talking about at the mo - the 'demographic issue'.

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Beetootoyourself · 02/01/2008 18:41

journo mate of mine says she is

'marvelling at how dying nastily - in this case in the manner of Benazir Bhutto, confers absolution from everything, and have just sent an email to a friend who I am sure had access to evidence that she killed her brother (along with many other people).' - there may or may not be eveidence for this...

Monkeytrousers · 02/01/2008 19:04

Well, whatever, I'd like to see that evidence before commenting. Being a politician is a much more complicated job that being a journo.

Have you heard of Moynihan's law, Beety? Ask your journo about it.

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Callisto · 02/01/2008 19:53

Well, she has been accused of corruption in the past too but I don't know on what grounds. Nothing a politician does to gain and stay in power suprises me anymore, but as Monkey says, I'd like to see some evidence first.

Monkeytrousers, excuse my ignorance about demographics and Muslim population figures etc, etc. Please could you explain what you mean by the 'demographic issue' and the 50% figure you quoted earlier? Many thanks.

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