Tagging those with dementia?

[FlamesparodyOfAChristmasName]

here

I can see the pros and cons - part of me baulks and thinks "THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS!!!" the other part remembers my g/dad wandering, if he hadn't lived in a close knit community he would have been much less likely to be returned home.

IKWYM. Danger is it will be used as a substitute for proper care. People with dementia are already very badly treated by carers and care homes etc. - doped up to make life easier for the business rather than because they need it. Abuse is common - people being tied into chairs, for instance. If those in authority sorted out the care system so people with dementia were properly looked after and treated with respect, this might be helpful. But we are a long way away from that.

I actually think it would give my Dad more freedom. He has told my Mu that he can go out when he likes - which is true - but he quite often forgets where he was planning to go and then gets lost and we have to go driving round the neighbourhood looking for him. If he had one of these, he could go out for walks on his own and my Mum would always know where he is!

IKWYM re the pros and cons but, I think, as long as the dementia sufferer agreed to it, it actually could give them a bit more of a life.

we lost my mum on several occasions and it was so stressful, having to contact the police and searching the streets for her. So I am in favour of them. However, as edam says, care for those with dementia is appalling and unlike holland, especially where they have brilliant care homes for those with dementia, here they cease to be treated like real human beings. Can't see that changing.

As an OT i am aware of products that could be used in this way - alarms that trigger when people leave their chair incase they fall, tags on doors that, if broken, can play a recorded messege to say "go back inside". BUT like you say they are no substiitute for proper care - someone needs o respond to that alarm

They are human beings who need to be kept safe from themselves.

My mother lives in a locked ward. The unit she lives in is superb, and she is treated with great respect. She can also be free to wander the unit. But the door needs to be locked for her protection

While some people might thing this has taken away her human rights, I know that it keeps her safe from a world that she is incapable of understanding.

Unless people have lived with demetia they will not fully understand this issue

This would have been great for my grandpa- he became a skilled escapologist during the first couple of years of his dementia. Kept thinking he'd just been demobbed from the army and was trying to get back home to his wife. Then he'd get lost 'cause the roads had been changed round' - luckily he was always returned safe and sound, if often cold/wet. But then he was German so the other aspects of his care where perhaps better than is common here and so tagging would have been a supplementary measure - he really was incredibly good at bypassing the homes not inconsiderable security.

I would like ds1 to have one tbh. Our biggest fear is always that he gets out and gets run off. Especially at friends houses. Has happened to a child from his school twice. Last time it took the police about 4 hours to find him iirc. Actually happened to my friend's dd as well- they were on holiday and she wandered off at 5am - they had to rase a search party (in french) and eventually found her a number of fields away- she'd been missing for about 2 or 3 hours. We spend our whole time checking that someone knows where he is and is responsible for him (as in 'dh have you got ds1?/ dh has ds1 run down to you?'). Even if tagged that wouldn't go- we'd still be too worried about cars and traffic to ever be relaxed about him escaping, but if he did it would be slightly reassuring to know he could be found.

Yurt1 as a stop gap measure Have you thought about Loc8or? These are little 'tags' that you can put on keys etc....but they also have one of the 4 provided set to go off if the person wearing it goes outside a 200M radius.

Possibly not that helpful in the day, but would work for the 'goes missing in the night time' nightmare. You could, I think, sew it into ds's pjs

120 m radius here

oh that checking that someone has ds1 is inside - outside he doesn't get away from the end of someones hand, but he's fast and if he did he could get lost quickly.

Thinking about it had this conversation independently with dh the other day. I was given a GPS for walking for Xmas and had used it taking ds1 up to the moors. That night dh said it must be getting close to the time when they could tag people to send out their position- and wouldn't that be useful for ds1.

So yes good idea I think. I think anyone who lives daily with the worry of losing someone they love would be for it. We have 3 locks on our front door- ds1 can open 2 of them in seconds. Most friends houses he can get out of the house in seconds. We haven't lost him yet, but more through luck perhaps.

mb- trying to picture 200m.... Our front door is alarmed for the getting out in the middle of the night scenario. I wonder if he would wear a bracelet (prob not.....). My biggest fear is him getting out during the day and us not noticing (which has happened to the boy from his school). Might be an idea if he ever starts to try scaling our fence, or for friends houses....... Thanks- will look them up.

if ds has the 'panic tag' on him, it will trigger your locator box if he goes outside a set radius. Downside is that his tag will then also beep, which might be an issue for him.....also might be a far too attractive responce that might 'make' him' escape again

Could be useful is limied situations thouhgh

PMSL at him escaping to make it beep. Yes I can see that
Because he's never let of when out and about (you know what I mean- even when we did let go of him when we met he was pretty closely tailed by one of us at all times) I'm not sure it would be that useful out and about. Would be incredibly useful if we ever stay away from home though to replace the front door alarm....... Thank you. Will be on our shopping list I think.

I work on a locked dementia unit, without a doubt there would be numerous horrific accidents etc if the ward was not closed, we are right by a very busy dual carriageway and a canal and im sure that these would pose the most threats.

I think its a good idea.

It is also bloody magic at helping 'one' to find 'ones' keys etc etc.

Which I'm sure you would not need.

I, on ethe other hard, use mine on a daily basis!

I was thinking that it might be useful for you in a 'hoilday' situation , should the need arise

I think it's a good idea.
In my case though (Grandma) she would never have agreed to wear one, so would have had to sneak it onto her as a 'bracelet' or whatever.
Would have saved a lot of heartache for my parents driving round the streets, her being brought home by police or kind taxi drivers.

it's interesting..my reaction immediately is on the one hand I can see how it could help family and friends to find people who stray hopefully before they come to harm, but if it became the norm I would be afraid that there would be pressure and from a personal viewpoint i can see it would start to be considered in other areas like other mental health situations. I wouldn't like to see it becoming a common practice.

She is now past the wandering stage and on a locked ward anyway. The carers take them on regular day trips, I have no idea how they manage!!

I think in that situation they have large enough numbers of supervising staff.

The issue of 'wandering' in the night must be horrific for carers at home. Not only do people with dementia need constant supervision during the day, but they also have very disturbed sleeping patterns.

I remember one if the nurses saying to ma that they could cope with my mother, because at theend of the shift they went home to normailty and a good nights sleep. For full time carers this respite isn't there.

at least with a tag they have some degree of peace of mind.

On the unit where I work, the clients dont get tired like we do at night time- they are wandering around all night long, in and out of each others rooms etc. It must be so hard for carers at home to look after family members with dementia, you would have to be alert literally for 24 hours a day.

I recently looked after a lovely mid 50's gent on an inpatient unit recently whose mental illness was exacerbated following the death of his mother- she had dementia and had managed to leave the family home in the middle of the night, walk 3 miles barefoot to the M5 motorway and was killed by a Lorry.
Bloody awful- a tagging device would no doubt have saved that womans life.

True. My grandad aged about ten years in the couple of years when she was quite bad but still at home

Until my mother fell and broke her hip she would wander constantly. In fact that is how she broke her hip (no-one's fault, just an accident).

She has no idea of where she is, or of any sort of danger.

She has no concept of time, no recognition of anyone, little idea of who she is anymore and no language.

Thank god for wonderful people like you TE.

I cried last week at work- we have a wonderful woman on the ward who is so lovely, always singing to us and loves hugs and to sit and chat. Her grandson came to visit her with his own daughter (grandson about 30) and he sat with her and they talked and she made a real fuss of the the great grand daughter- kissing and hugging her. As the grandson left I could see he was very emotional and hugged his gran for a long time.
He was only out of the door for 2 minutes and I asked the lady who he was "I dont know, but isnt he kind?"

I had to walk away and cry- perhaps it being christmas made me that little bit extra emotional, but how awful to not recognise someone so close to you.

Santa- I'm not sure it would become widespread. I would use one for ds1 but he is very severely autistic, has no concept of road sense at all, no concept of staying near us, no speech at all. If he gets away from us (and like patients with dementia is is often up at 2.30am- and stays up for the rest of the day) he risks walking straight into the middle of a road. He loves to hang over high places, loves fast flowing streams- god knows what he would do at a river bank. In his case it would have very good use- for the same reasons as it would have good use in dementia patients. I'm not sure that there would be any reason to use it in other situations because I'm not sure its any use - except in situations where people are normally 'locked up' so to speak (as in ds1's case and the dementia patients).

I have loads of sympathy and I can appreciate how it would be a useful aid in some situations and have a huge amount of respect for families and carers who cope with managing terrible and sad situations.

The situation I can see it might be extended to is in mental health units/trusts where patients can be voluntary and are on locked wards/under supervision/allowed out in the community.

I can see both sides of the coin. It might be considered an aid then to and I don't know how I would feel about that. But of course that isn't the discussion it's just that sometimes you can see how things could develop.