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Rape of 10 year old by 9 men does not attract custodial sentences

84 replies

Freckle · 10/12/2007 19:28

How bloody appalling. What makes it worse is that the judge is a women and said in court that the girl "probably agreed to have sex with the rapists". How can a 10 year old possibly consent to be raped?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7136269.stm

OP posts:
Freckle · 12/12/2007 18:27

Apparently the (male) senior prosecutor did not seek custodial sentences. He has now been suspended and the matter is being investigated.

It still beggars belief that the judge (no matter what gender) suggested that the poor child had consented.

OP posts:
TotalChaos · 12/12/2007 18:35

awful case, awful result

slim22 · 13/12/2007 00:54

Just saw this on the news and I'm still shaking.

Am absolutely ignorant about Australia and have just started looking up status of Aboriginal population.

All I can think about is APARTHEID.

Don't want to offend anyone.
But I think Aussies should be awake now, if you see this thread can you help educate us on what seems to be an awfull sore on you collective conscience?

WideWebWitch · 13/12/2007 01:03

I read this. It's awful.

Whimsy · 13/12/2007 01:19

How awful

LaDiDancesroundtheXmastree · 13/12/2007 01:25

Absolutely awful story and .

I don't know much about life within Aboriginal communities but I do know that Aborigines have shockingly short life expectancies in comparison to their white countrymen and women.

eidsvold · 13/12/2007 03:53

right so much to address and you know - i could spend years trying to educate you about the aboriginal history of Australia and you would still know so little - as I do.

There has been a huge outcry over this sentencing and it has come to light that this particular judge has a habit of awarding non custodial sentences for things like this.

here

ninedragons · 13/12/2007 04:12

Well, slim, it's an incredibly knotty issue and I don't think one that can be addressed here. But I'll have a quick go

I do think that the blame is not entirely with white Australia (as I think it probably largely was with white South Africa). Many Aboriginal communities have huge, utterly pervasive substance-abuse problems. I think that there is growing recognition of the obligation of all Australians to help Aboriginal communities overcome this, even if the necessary measures are quite draconian. The government recently banned the sale or consumption of alcohol in certain areas of the Northern Territory. There was a bit of liberal hand-wringing, but from what I've read, Aboriginal women in particular love the system - it's cut down domestic violence dramatically.

There does seem to be a certain uneasiness about the appropriate level of intervention, probably because of the Stolen Generation scandal, when Aboriginal children were taken from their perfectly competent, loving parents and placed with white carers and trained to become domestic servants (as in the case of this girl - I gather there was a lot of angst because they didn't want to place her with white foster-carers).

On one hand, self-determination means exactly that - as a community, you are responsible for sorting out your own problems. On the other, cases like this show that maybe full self-determination isn't working and that the government should be a bit quicker to intervene to protect the vulnerable.

There are also tensions between modern Australian values and some Aboriginal cultural practices, such as promised marriage (young girls can be betrothed to much older men, and from what I understand, with betrothal comes the right for the man to have sex with the girl).

Personally I have no time for cultural relativism and think the government needs to overrule "cultural traditions" when they're damaging to children. If they wouldn't let, say, a Middle Eastern immigrant take a 13-year-old wife because it's acceptable in his culture, I don't think an Aboriginal man should be allowed to do it either just because his ancestors were in the country first. That 10-year-old girl is an Australian citizen and should be entitled to exactly the same protection as every other 10-year-old Australian citizen, but sometimes that conflicts with the (dare I say) oversensitive hands-off approach to indigenous communities.

slim22 · 13/12/2007 04:23

thx for update.

9dragons, your last paragraph, spot on what I was thinking.
How shocking. Is the double standard set as law then? I find it so hard to understand in a country like Australia.

eidsvold · 13/12/2007 04:29

actually cestlavie - the amount of money that has been given to aboriginal groups and poured into solving these issues amounts to many millions - unfortunately not all the money has been used wisely and a few individuals have used the money for their own personal gain sadly.

eidsvold · 13/12/2007 04:31

for every person like that judge - there are plenty who do think this is appalling and who are shocked at this kind of behaviour regardless of race of either side.

Unfortunately at times it seems damned if the government does and damned if it doesn't.

There was also plans being considered for further intervention within this communities by government groups and it caused an uproar.

slim22 · 13/12/2007 04:43

But why are these "communities" out of the scope of common law?

Are they not australian citizen?

eidsvold · 13/12/2007 05:08

technically they are not out of the bounds of common law but there are a number of people who are arguing for traditional law rather than 'european' law ( for want of a better term). They want to live traditional lives.

The judge was wrong - it is not the norm - otherwise there would have been no outcry.

slim22 · 13/12/2007 05:18

so and so unbelievable.
I'm just Gobsmacked that this sort of segregation takes place in a country so close (culturally) to us.

ernest · 13/12/2007 06:52

hmm, I'm no antipodean expert, but get the impression that the 'segregation' is a 2 way thing, in that it is not soley enforced on the aboriginal population by the bad white settlers, but that the aboriginal population also want a certain level of 'separateness'.

But in 1 country, the same laws, and level of law enforcement should apply to all irrespective of origin. It seems that, instead of learning by their mistakes the government have gone too far the other way.

At least the widespread outcry is reassuring and will lead to changes. Is it right that the 9 'men' involved will now be re-tried?

slim22 · 13/12/2007 07:00

Yes Ernest I understand that what I call segregation is to some degree self determination. I'm not naive to see things in black and white.

But I can't help thinking how convenient for the governement to just wash their hands off the problem. Clearly from what I've read these days, this shamefull policy has shown it's limits.

ernest · 13/12/2007 08:03

yes. I wasn't implying you were misguided or anything. Hopefully at least this'll jolt the powers that be and the population as a whole to start to narrow this gap and bring equality into play, not just words, and not just when it's convenient. Head should roll for this. 10 years old ffs.

And what does the future hold for that little girl now? If she remains in situ (even is she is moved, news travels word gets out), people gossip and are just plain cruel, especially when supposedly responsible and educated judges say she probably asked for consented to it. And what will it do to her self worth, knowing the cps didn't even deem her worthy of seeking custodial sentences

SSStollenzeit · 13/12/2007 08:19

Well that girl is really getting the message that she's valueless, isn't she? Gang-raped at 7, taken out of the comunity, returned to the community, gang-raped at 10 and told it wasn't actually a crime, actually she probably agreed to it.

It's so obviously wrong, I am just speechless

hadthebuildersin · 13/12/2007 08:31

Be aware that criticism of the practices involved in the case could be construed as racism and lead to problems for mumsnet.

LaDiDancesroundtheXmastree · 13/12/2007 10:00

I don't think that any of the views expressed here could be construed as being racist.

It is quite clear that a 10 year old girl cannot consent to sex with anyone, this is true regardless of her ethnic background and culture. I feel that it is racist to suggest that this girl and those who offended against her should be treated differently because of their ethnic background.

ninedragons · 13/12/2007 13:33

It's not racist to point out that a practice common in any culture is morally wrong. Female genital mutilation is morally wrong. Slavery is morally wrong. Killing homosexuals is morally wrong. Having sex with children is morally wrong. I don't care if any given cultural group has been doing these things since the first homo sapiens were chasing zebras around the savannah, they're still wrong.

CloudAtlas · 13/12/2007 13:38

look this is awful, horrible, terrible. I do not want to read about it, and I find the thread title really upsetting. Wish you'd toned it down a bit. Thanks

Elizabetth · 13/12/2007 13:55

Since when was gang rape of children an Aboriginal practice? Now that really is a racist claim.

I linked further up the thread to a story about a gang of white teenage Australian boys who gang raped another girl with developmental difficulties who got off scot free. That happened this year. This is an Australian male problem and one that the courts are encouraging by letting gang rapists go free. They know they can do it and get away with it.

Oh and the problems that Aboriginal Australians face? Almost entirely down to the shockingly racist society they live in.

SantasWhiskers · 13/12/2007 14:00

Round of applause for ninedragons there - spot on.

This case just beggars belief. What kind of message has been given to that poor girl ffs?

FluffyMummy123 · 13/12/2007 14:01

Message withdrawn

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