Can anyone help me understand what’s happening in Afghanistan?

[clovercornflower]

I wondered if anyone might be prepared to explain it to me, a bit of an idiots guide if you like. I understand the basics, I think, but not all of the surrounding context and history.

My understanding so far is that the Taliban have taken over the government. The Taliban are an extreme Islamic group - correct so far?

The taliban are an extreme Islamic group who were in power in Afghanistan in 2001. After the destruction of the World Trade Centre in New York in September 2001, George Bush declared his War on Terror and said that the US would carry out regime change in Afghanistan to overthrow the Taliban.

1000s of international troops flooded in. Eventually they got to some semblance of peace after a lot of deaths of Afghan nationals and international troops and started raining the Afghan army.

The US decided it wanted to withdraw and has been pulling out troops for a while and this is now mostly finished. While the troops were pulling out it turned out that the Taliban were hiding, not defeated and have swept back into all the areas they've been painfully cleared out of.

Honestly I'm looking at your post and wondering where to start. But it's a very, very good question and I hope you get some good answers.
In time-honoured fashion I'm going to start with another question or two in order to grasp the context from your end - how old are you? Were you adult enough to be aware of 9/11 at the time?

Thank you @badpuma

@heldinadream must admit I was certainly old enough to be aware of everything I was actually 20, so I am 40 now, although it was three days before I turned 21. I was just starting my last year at university and I wasn’t really watching the news or anything, and it wasn’t of course available on phones and so on as it is now. I do remember it happening of course but I didn’t really understand why.

Can anyone explain what the Taliban actually want to achieve?

I would love to learn more about it too! I was just starting primary school when 9/11 happened. Why is US stepping back? Where’s the UN? Where are the other countries in all this? Why are we doing nothing?

Their objective, as ever, it’s a patriarchal totalitarian state where they rule with fear and intimidation and with that comes power and status.

I really hope this isn’t a horribly ignorant question but are the taliban and isis different things or the same but with the taliban a different umbrella if you like?

We’re not ‘doing nothing’. We tried for twenty years and invested billions of pounds. The idea was basically revenge for 9/11 but wrapped up in an idea of trying to create a democratic state where women and girls could work and be educated. Unfortunately this was a charade. They have basically westernised a generation of people who are now lambs to the slaughter of an extreme Islamic regime that never went away.

@clovercornflower

Thank you *@badpuma*

@heldinadream must admit I was certainly old enough to be aware of everything I was actually 20, so I am 40 now, although it was three days before I turned 21. I was just starting my last year at university and I wasn’t really watching the news or anything, and it wasn’t of course available on phones and so on as it is now. I do remember it happening of course but I didn’t really understand why.

Thank you, that's helpful. Please don't feel there's anything wrong with asking questions. 20 was very young. Obviously you were aware of the event but not the reasons or the politics. 9/11 was a massive, massive shock in the west and obviously in America especially. It really shifted the world's balance and it precipitated the US into a response that was not well thought out or clear-sighted but was based on a deep need to be seen to do something, to be seen by its own citizens not to be weak in the face of aggression. Unfortunately Tony Blair, at the time, decided to back Bush and act like America's tame lapdog. This is still a bone of huge contention. Had we not what would have happened? Well, we can't know that. But once the whole thing started it was inevitable that we were in for the long haul and actually a great deal of extremely good work has been done supporting the Afghan people to make changes to their society - but these changes are not deep rooted and they are also not valued by some of the population; and indeed as an outside imposition, why would they be? So we are left with an uneasy society that is trying to progress - especially in women's rights - but very much underpinned and supported by western presence.
So this is what happens when that presence decides to withdraw. Honestly I listened to Biden last night and while I don't agree with how it's been done I think there's a lot of truth in what he said. Did you listen? It's worth hearing his justification for withdrawal.

@FreeBritnee I know what we did in the past but I’m saying now. Why/how did we let this happen when we worked so hard to give women rights? Is anyone going to get involved or are we just going to accept the talibans?

@FreeBritnee

We’re not ‘doing nothing’. We tried for twenty years and invested billions of pounds. The idea was basically revenge for 9/11 but wrapped up in an idea of trying to create a democratic state where women and girls could work and be educated. Unfortunately this was a charade. They have basically westernised a generation of people who are now lambs to the slaughter of an extreme Islamic regime that never went away.

My heart is breaking for these young men and women whose lives are going to be turned upside down because of this. 😢They're in hell on earth. It's disgusting this is happening.

The Taliban have been well-supported by Pakistan for years. Funded, allowed to hide (remember Osama Bin Laden’s assassination…) and given high level support, particularly by the Pakistan security service, which is probably more influential than the actual government

China and Pakistan are allies, due to a shared hatred of India, so the Taliban has also been getting support from China. That Chinese support, along with the billions the taliban makes each year from organised crime, meant they’ve been able to buy weapons, pay troops etc to mount a very well-organised coup of the government

It’s key that the Taliban sent an envoy of senior leaders to Beijing a few weeks ago, and that China was the first country to publicly say they weren’t closing their embassy - it’s their way of saying they see the Taliban as legitimate leadership of the country

In exchange, China will probably be awarded billions worth of contracts to build whatever evil projects the Taliban has planned

Afghanistan has long been a very politically unstable nation, with many tribal factions and border conflicts.

There are a group of hard line extremists who want to create a caliphate- a conservative, right wing, nationalist state that limits the hard won freedoms of the majority. They believe in control and subjugation through violence and oppression.

Those extremists are very wealthy and we’ll resourced from outside Afghanistan. It means they have better resources than the Afghani police and military. That external resourcing makes them incredibly powerful. They are supported because of Opium mainly. The Opium poppies provide a huge economy in narcotics trading.

Widespread destruction during the war, millions uprooted from their homes, foreign aid cuts, and losses of local spending by departed U.S.-led foreign troops are fueling an economic and humanitarian crisis that is likely to leave many destitute Afghans dependent on the narcotics trade for survival.

That dependence threatens to bring more instability as the Taliban, other armed groups, ethnic warlords, and corrupt public officials vie for drug profits and power.

They also control mining in mountainous areas and have rich individuals funding from Saudi, Iran and Pakistan. They have fundamentalist supporters outside Afghanistan- although no states openly support them.

The rest of their money is raised through taxes and local levies. Taking money from the already destitute.

In the past twenty years, the country has seen fledgling democracy emerging, but withdrawal of troops and foreign aid has left the path for rich, fundamentalist men with guns to take control. The swift withdrawal of troops has exacerbated the downfall and led to panic amongst the ordinary people and foreign nationals.

@FreeBritnee

We’re not ‘doing nothing’. We tried for twenty years and invested billions of pounds. The idea was basically revenge for 9/11 but wrapped up in an idea of trying to create a democratic state where women and girls could work and be educated. Unfortunately this was a charade. They have basically westernised a generation of people who are now lambs to the slaughter of an extreme Islamic regime that never went away.

It was an impossible task when neighbouring countries sheltered them. Not everyone is anti-Taliban.

Can honestly recommend the Newsround website if you want complicated things explained simply, either for yourself or to help explain things to your DC.

E.g: www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/58221225

Also the tabliban are essentially the worlds largest drug cartel.

@ China’s involvement. Doesn’t bode well for world peace does it?

As a side note - why don’t China like India?

@SW1amp

The Taliban have been well-supported by Pakistan for years. Funded, allowed to hide (remember Osama Bin Laden’s assassination…) and given high level support, particularly by the Pakistan security service, which is probably more influential than the actual government

China and Pakistan are allies, due to a shared hatred of India, so the Taliban has also been getting support from China. That Chinese support, along with the billions the taliban makes each year from organised crime, meant they’ve been able to buy weapons, pay troops etc to mount a very well-organised coup of the government

It’s key that the Taliban sent an envoy of senior leaders to Beijing a few weeks ago, and that China was the first country to publicly say they weren’t closing their embassy - it’s their way of saying they see the Taliban as legitimate leadership of the country

In exchange, China will probably be awarded billions worth of contracts to build whatever evil projects the Taliban has planned

What!!! Wtf China! Is Russia involved? Seems right up their alley to support the talibans.

it was an impossible task when neighbouring countries sheltered them. Not everyone is anti-Taliban.

Which is why the West has stepped back. We know it’s basically impossible and were completely skint due to the virus that escaped from China.

China has massive investments in Afghanistan. Just google it! Of course they’re going to support the anti west regime. Same with Russia.

[quote TellMeSomeGoodNewsPlease]Can honestly recommend the Newsround website if you want complicated things explained simply, either for yourself or to help explain things to your DC.

E.g: www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/58221225[/quote]

Super clear and helpful for us slightly clueless ones. It's awful that my world news view isn't better. Thank you @TellMe

@blinkinblimey

@ China’s involvement. Doesn’t bode well for world peace does it?

As a side note - why don’t China like India?

It’s all about borders and controlling access to those borders. That’s pretty much every war that ever was.

Afghanistan isn't really a nation state in the same way that we might think of one here in the West. It's a mountainous region home to a collection of tribes that don't really like each other very much.

For many in the more rural areas of the country, life hadn't changed that much.

The democracy that was established was incredibly corrupt, with bribes being the norm. The rumour is that the president fled with a helicopter full of cash.

The Afghan army were very dependent on American support for all of their actions. They relied on American intelligence and weaponry. I've read elsewhere that many soldiers have not been paid for several months, so when America withdrew its support, you can understand why the soldiers were quick to abandon their posts. I suspect many have returned to their family homes and are hoping there won't be any reprisals.

Sadly, this was always going to happen, as soon as the US announced the withdrawal. Now the best we can hope for is that the Taliban's more moderate voices prevail.

It’s also relevant that Afghanistan isn’t a nation in the way we understand it in the west (and we don’t often think very deeply about what we mean by country/state/nation so it’s easy to miss the difference). It is a place with different local tribal leaders. Many of them have seen which way the wind is blowing, and that the US were in talks with the Taliban so they too have struck deals with the Taliban.

I don’t think the Russians are as open to the Taliban as other posters claim. If anything they’ve been more staunch in their opposition to ISIS and the Taliban than the west.

This thread is very helpful for someone like me too and thanks for the Newsround tip, that is the perfect level for me.

I’m just wondering, is it just Afghanistan that they want to take over, or do they want to rule the whole world their way?